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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:12 am

Well, unfortunately, Shredder, I can't find the JEDEC online reseller that will sell me PC3200 and guarantee that it will work.

OTH, Kingston, whose memory I do buy, won't make it available to me.

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Who isn't going to bother checking the Crucial configurator, or the MWAVE confg.......................
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Postby Shredder on Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:54 am

CowboySlim wrote:Well, unfortunately, Shredder, I can't find the JEDEC online reseller that will sell me PC3200 and guarantee that it will work.


:D :lol: JEDEC is not an e-tailer or a brand. I'll just provide link to who and what they are.

http://www.jedec.org/Home/about_jedec.cfm
http://www.jedec.org/
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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:54 pm

Hey, I know what JEDEC isn't, and that was just the point. It isn't squat what JEDEC says is supposed to work, it's what the Kingston and Intel congfigurators say will work. Now I said in two posts above that the Intel D845GBEV2 won't work with PC3200 DDR-SDRAM, and JEDEC won't make it work. Worse yet, if I did buy because JEDEC says it is supposed to work and it doesn't, will JEDEC refund the money?

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Postby Shredder on Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:26 pm

CowboySlim wrote:Hey, I know what JEDEC isn't, and that was just the point. It isn't squat what JEDEC says is supposed to work, it's what the Kingston and Intel congfigurators say will work. Now I said in two posts above that the Intel D845GBEV2 won't work with PC3200 DDR-SDRAM, and JEDEC won't make it work.


Kingston, Intel and others follow JEDEC DDR specification to make specifications that allows hardware manufacturers to manufacture compatible hardwares, and not the other way around. If every individual company came up with their own specifications, nothing will be compatible or be able to be used in another hardware. So as long as hardware manufacturers follow the specifications, each standard DDR RAM stick is compatible with the systems that utilizes it.

CowboySlim wrote:Worse yet, if I did buy because JEDEC says it is supposed to work and it doesn't, will JEDEC refund the money


Again, JEDEC is not a manufacturing or retailing company. It is ultimately upto hardware manufacturers decision to follow the specifications. It's stupid (money, time and market demand wise) to make DDR RAM that will only be compatible with one specific hardware. I'll rephrase what I said... it is either Intel 845 chipset, BIOS or faulty memory stick that's causing incompaibility/problem, in your case. Although I'm fairly sure it's BIOS problem which it can not read information stored in memory stick correctly as each memory stick contains information on its designated speed and CAS latency.
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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:36 pm

I'll rephrase what I said... it is either Intel 845 chipset, BIOS or faulty memory stick that's causing incompaibility/problem, in your case. Although I'm fairly sure it's BIOS problem which it can not read information stored in memory stick correctly as each memory stick contains information on its designated speed and CAS latency.


It doesn't matter how it is rephrased, it is very simple:
There is nothing wrong with the BIOS, it was never intended that the Intel 845GE chipset support PC3200. Intel never designed that capability into that particular chipset, no BIOS update will ever provide PC3200 support. Intel never claimed that the 845GE boards would support PC3200.

I'm only spoofing about JEDEC, I know what they are and what they do. But just because they set the standard doesn't mean that Intel has made the 845GE chipset support PC3200 and they didn't. The JEDEC standard doesn't tell me which chipset supports which memory - it tells designers what to design to for compatibility. This is obvious, this I do know.

There is no problem with my memory because it isn't PC3200. I don't have PC3200 because the MWAVE configurator doesn't list it as an option to buy for the 845GE boards. I never installed PC3200 because the Kingston configurator doesn't offer it as an option. I did not buy PC3200 because the Intel configurator only lists support for PC2100 and PC2700.

It is really that simple, PC3200 just will not work with that chipset, regardless.

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Postby Shredder on Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:02 am

CowboySlim wrote:It is really that simple, PC3200 just will not work with that chipset, regardless.


OK.. Now I see you are missing the whole point I'm trying to point out. PC3200 memory is perfectly downward compatible, PC3200 (200Mhz DDR) can run at PC2700 (166Mhz DDR) or PC2100 (133Mhz DDR) or slower. So if it can't run at PC3200 then it can run fine as PC2700, PC2100 or PC1600. But if it can't run as such then there's a definite problem with chipset, BIOS or memory stick.
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Postby CowboySlim on Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:42 pm

Actually, I'm not missing any point whatsoever. I have total comprehension of that which you are trying to convey.

I understand what the JEDEC standard is and that it mandates downward compatibility as you point out above.

Now with respect to my system, because it won't run with PC3200 doesn't mean that "there's a definite problem with chipset, BIOS or memory stick" as you put it. There was never any intention by Intel to design that capability in and therefore the lack of such should not be construed as "a problem."

Can I make this any more clear by analogy? There was never any intention by the maker of my boots that the right boot be designed and made to also be compatible with my left foot and worn on my left foot if I so choose. Therefore, because I can't comfortably wear my right boot on my left foot does not mean that there is, as you would put it: "there's a definite problem with the right boot, sock or foot powder."

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About Dual Channel Memory

Postby bimbla on Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:28 pm

Probably one last thing.....

NOTE: nForce2 only NOT support x4 memory device. 1GB can be made by other density of DRAM chip such as x 8, x16.

What does this note in the discription of my motherboard (MSI K7N2G-ILSR) main memory section mean?

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Postby Boba_Fett on Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:44 pm

Shredder wrote:
CowboySlim wrote:It is really that simple, PC3200 just will not work with that chipset, regardless.


OK.. Now I see you are missing the whole point I'm trying to point out. PC3200 memory is perfectly downward compatible, PC3200 (200Mhz DDR) can run at PC2700 (166Mhz DDR) or PC2100 (133Mhz DDR) or slower. So if it can't run at PC3200 then it can run fine as PC2700, PC2100 or PC1600. But if it can't run as such then there's a definite problem with chipset, BIOS or memory stick.


That isn't true. While it should work in theory (underclocking the ram), I've seen plenty of old mobo's (PC2100/266 and PC2700/333) choke on PC3200. I've also seen PC100 mobo's reject PC133 and PC150. It usually can be fixed with a BIOS update.
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Postby Shredder on Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:04 pm

Boba_Fett wrote:I've seen plenty of old mobo's (PC2100/266 and PC2700/333) choke on PC3200. I've also seen PC100 mobo's reject PC133 and PC150. It usually can be fixed with a BIOS update.


:D Yes that is one of the things that I suggested that maybe causing memory problems, and to fix it by updating to the latest BIOS if available. Read my older posts/replies.
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Postby CowboySlim on Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:01 pm

Shredder wrote:
Boba_Fett wrote:I've seen plenty of old mobo's (PC2100/266 and PC2700/333) choke on PC3200. I've also seen PC100 mobo's reject PC133 and PC150. It usually can be fixed with a BIOS update.


:D Yes that is one of the things that I suggested that maybe causing memory problems, and to fix it by updating to the latest BIOS if available. Read my older posts/replies.


Well, I took a couple of weeks off from telling you that PC3200 won't work and it isn't going to work just because you think that it should work. So, here is the link to the Intel site which includes the following technical information:

System Memory Features

The Desktop Board D845GEBV2 has two DIMM sockets and support the following memory features:


2.5 V (only) 184-pin DDR SDRAM DIMMs with gold-plated contacts

Unbuffered, unregistered single-sided or double-sided DIMMs

Maximum total system memory: 2 GB; minimum total system memory: 64 MB

DDR333/266 MHz DDR SDRAM DIMMs only

Serial Presence Detect (SPD)

Suspend to RAM


And don't tell me again that I don't have the latest BIOS update that will make PC3200 work because I do have the most recent update and the Intel release notes do not claim that any of the updates make it work. Instead of spending time telling me that it will work (which it won't), research the Intel release notes yourself as you don't seem to accept my contentions that it won't work.

Now, just what part of "Won't Work" do you not understand?

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Who really wishes that PC3200 would work because there are some great specials out there on them this week.
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Postby Shredder on Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:37 pm

CowboySlim wrote:DDR333/266 MHz DDR SDRAM DIMMs only


You are misinterpreting it. It is said so because it doesn't support faster memory FSB officially (meaning, without overclocking).

CowboySlim wrote:Instead of spending time telling me that it will work (which it won't), research the Intel release notes yourself as you don't seem to accept my contentions that it won't work.

Now, just what part of "Won't Work" do you not understand?


You can run PC3200 as PC2100 or PC2700 since your motherboard chipset doesn't support memory FSB faster than PC2700.

Just what part of "downward compatible" and "could be faulty memory stick you may have used, BIOS, or chipset bug/limitation," do you not understand?

Anyways, Intel 845 chipset can't run memory FSB at 200Mhz so using PC3200 memory stick is almost pointless, except for overclocking.

EDIT:
Here's a link to Crucial Technology Memory upgrades compatibility list for Intel 845 Chipset. It lists PC3200 memory stick. You can also check out other memory manufacturers like Corsair Micro to verify PC3200 compatibility.
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Postby CowboySlim on Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:01 pm

You are misinterpreting it. It is said so because it doesn't support faster memory FSB officially (meaning, without overclocking).


There is only one misinterpretation, which is with respect to overclocking with an Intel mobo. The settings in Intel mobos are locked down - they are not resettable. One cannot overclock an Intel mobo if that is what it takes to make PC3200 work.

I also checked the Kingston configurator and found only PC2100 and PC2700 as applicable.

Very interesting about the Crucial site, they do list PC3200 and PC4000 (much to my amazement), but they also include this:
Information on the
Intel D845GEBV2

* 184-pin DIMM Banking: 2 (2 banks of 1)
* Chipset: Intel 845GE
* DDR SDRAM Frequencies: PC2100 and PC2700
* Error Detection Support: Non-ECC only
* Graphics Support: AGP 4X
* Max Unbuffered DDR SDRAM: 2048MB
* Module Types Supported: Unbuffered only
* Supported DRAM Types: DDR SDRAM only
* USB Support: 1.x Compliant

Which certainly presents a mixed message to which I can only scratch my head somewhat as I waffle momentarily.

I sure would like to try some of that Crucial PC3200 for myself as that appears to be the only resolution that might satisfy all. I will apply to a PM with my mailing address if anyone cares to send me a stick for a trial.

:D

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Postby Shredder on Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:52 am

CowboySlim wrote:There is only one misinterpretation, which is with respect to overclocking with an Intel mobo. The settings in Intel mobos are locked down - they are not resettable.


Yes. I almost forgot about Intel made motherboards lacking overclocking features for stability. But I think you can still tweak memory CAS latency setting? Running high speed rated memory at lower speed usually allows agressive timing setting.

CowboySlim wrote:One cannot overclock an Intel mobo if that is what it takes to make PC3200 work.


You can run PC3200 as PC2700 or PC2100 with agressive timing.
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Postby LoneWolf on Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:53 am

OTH, my board has a max rating of 333MHz, equivalent to PC2700, and will not run at all with PC3200 memory installed.
Slim


Man, that sucks. My Corsair XMS PC2700 runs great clocked up to PC3200. Will your 2700 run at higher than stock?
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Postby CowboySlim on Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:34 pm

Shredder wrote:
CowboySlim wrote:There is only one misinterpretation, which is with respect to overclocking with an Intel mobo. The settings in Intel mobos are locked down - they are not resettable.


Yes. I almost forgot about Intel made motherboards lacking overclocking features for stability. But I think you can still tweak memory CAS latency setting? Running high speed rated memory at lower speed usually allows agressive timing setting.

CowboySlim wrote:One cannot overclock an Intel mobo if that is what it takes to make PC3200 work.


You can run PC3200 as PC2700 or PC2100 with agressive timing.


Hmm..... Without CMOS settings to change, I don't know how to affect a change to agressive timing. I do know for sure that there is adjusting screw to turn on the memory module. :D

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