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Burning Verbatim 16x-24x CD-RWs at 8x speed?

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Burning Verbatim 16x-24x CD-RWs at 8x speed?

Postby Mr. Birger on Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:33 pm

I have 700 Mb Verbatim 16x-24x Ultra-Speed CD-RW discs that makes me wonder if it is possible to use a lower recording speed with those discs than the speeds of 16x and 24x?
Say, 8x speed would be nice for me, can I use that speed in some way (with some program?) when I want to record to my Verbatim CD-RWs?

The programs that I use when I want to burn to one of those discs are described here but if I must have a different program than these feel free to suggested them to me.

WinOnCD 3.8
CloneCD 4.3.1.9
Nero 6.3.0.2
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Postby dodecahedron on Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:48 pm

No.

Normal Speed (1x-4x), High Speed (10x-12x), Ultra Speed (16x-24x) are different technologies that aren't compatible.
an Ultra Speed CDRW can only be burnt at speeds between 16x and 24x.

why would you want to burn at at 8x only ???
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Postby Mr. Birger on Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:11 pm

I want to try a lower speed because I thought of that I would get less C1 errors at a lower recording speed.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:15 pm

well, unless i'm very much mistaken, too bad you can't.
but if you think a lower burn speed will produce less C1 errors, by all means try a HighSpeed disc (10x-12x) and see.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:54 pm

umm, Highspeed CD-RWs can be burned from 4x-12x and sometimes even 4x-16x, not 10x-12x.

Here are the speeds:
CD-RW: 1x-4x
HS CD-RW: 4x-10x, 4x-12x, 4x-16x (VERY RARE!)
US CD-RW: 16x-24x
US+ CD-RW: 16x-32x

There are no other variations, and no ways to change the burn speed limitations or requirments.... well, not in a way that would work at least.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:56 am

thanks for the corrections.
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Postby rdgrimes on Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:19 am

The early firmware versions for the LiteOn 52246S burner allowed 10x write speed on MCC ultraspeed RW discs. It worked extremely well too, error rates very similar to good quality CDR's.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:24 am

doesn't work anymore on newer firmwares?
and only 52246S ???

too bad! :(
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Postby rdgrimes on Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:27 am

dodecahedron wrote:doesn't work anymore on newer firmwares?
and only 52246S ???

too bad! :(


Correct, though I could be wrong about the later 6S firmwares, it might still work. I put my 6s away when the 7S arrived.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:46 am

very interesting!
i had thought it was impossible due to the technological differences between the different RW media types. apparently that is not so strict.
thanks for this tidbit of info.

any clue as to why no more?
it's a shame really :(
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:24 am

wow, now I feel like a goomba....

Thanks for the info though!

As I understood it, the "dye" (actually phase change material) would react very negatively to burning speeds below (and even more so faster) then the disc was certified to burn at....

but now that I think about it, I do remember hearing that a certain 24x re-writable drive when properly "adjusted" could burn 24x media at 32x.... but I also heard it didn't work very well. Interesting....
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Postby RJW on Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:44 am

It is technically possible for cd-rw's to be overclocked or underclocked.
Then why is there so much different media and isn't this done all the way.
Because burning ultra speed media on old drives wouldn't be a good idea since there optical pick up might not have the power to burn it good and might kill itself. In some cases firmware updates could have solved it but in the mayority this is not an option !

For that reason the protection part was build in however for newer drives it shouldn't be a problem if they implemented it to allow lower speed burning on ultra or high speed disc's.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:03 am

so it's all about laser power requirements of the phase-change material?
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Postby Spazmogen on Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:11 am

I'm pretty sure 10x is still an option with 6S0F for the 52x24x52x Lite On with the 16x-24x discs.

But I also use high speed 4-12x Verbatims too.
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:30 pm

My LTR 48246S burns the Verbatim Ultraspeeds at 10x, 16x, 24x and has done so with every firmware version except the original SID1 which didn't allow 24x. The C1 count at 10x (C1 max/ave = 18/2) is significantly lower than at higher rates.

However, I don't think there's much point in paying a premium for these and then burning them @10x (which is out of spec). There are high speed rewritables which do just as well and cost 1/2 that. I haven't tried the Verbatim Hioghspeed RWs, but have had good results with Intenso/Nanya, for example, with newer firmware versions. See these scans.

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Postby Mr. Birger on Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:15 pm

So, it's seems that it's only the burners Firmware that decides how slow you can burn a CD, sad.

If there existed a "cool" program that ignored what the Firmware wanted and let you decide for yourself how slow you wanted to burn a CD, (as long as the burner supports that speed) I would be a happy man.
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Postby pranav81 on Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:50 am

Hi guys,
I dont have any US or US+ media at the moment because they are not yet available in my city.I do have a LG HS (actually a MCC) media which I can burn at 4X and 10X and 12X without any problems.I have not checked the disc any time for C1 or C2 errors as the disc was perfectly read in any burner or CD-ROM.
See ya later,


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Postby Spazmogen on Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:25 am

Image

Image


So, with the 650mb 24x Verbatim CD-RW's & Lite On LTR 52246S drive, yes, 10x is an option.
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Postby dodecahedron on Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:45 pm

MediumRare wrote:MHowever, I don't think there's much point in paying a premium for these and then burning them @10x (which is out of spec). There are high speed rewritables which do just as well and cost 1/2 that.

OK the question that follows is:
how are the error rates on UltraSpeed (Verbatim DataLifePlus) CDRWs burnt at 10x (or 12x) as compared with HighSpeed CDRWs burnt at the same speed?
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Postby rdgrimes on Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:06 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
MediumRare wrote:MHowever, I don't think there's much point in paying a premium for these and then burning them @10x (which is out of spec). There are high speed rewritables which do just as well and cost 1/2 that.

OK the question that follows is:
how are the error rates on UltraSpeed (Verbatim DataLifePlus) CDRWs burnt at 10x (or 12x) as compared with HighSpeed CDRWs burnt at the same speed?

There are some scans posted in the CD test forums at CDFreaks. I seem to recall doing those with WSES.

http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.ph ... adid=75518
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:11 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
MediumRare wrote:MHowever, I don't think there's much point in paying a premium for these and then burning them @10x (which is out of spec). There are high speed rewritables which do just as well and cost 1/2 that.

OK the question that follows is:
how are the error rates on UltraSpeed (Verbatim DataLifePlus) CDRWs burnt at 10x (or 12x) as compared with HighSpeed CDRWs burnt at the same speed?

I actually put all the information you wanted in that post:
- Ultraspeed RW @10x: C1 max/ave = 18 / 2
- Intenso/NanYa Highspeed @12x C1 max/ave = 70 /1.2

I'll relink to the scan of NanYa RW (CD Doctor) I referred to:
Image
So after the initial spike, it's better (for example) than any CMC CDR's that I've had.

Incidentally, what you have to watch for is not necessarily a speed rating on the drive, but a note on the rewriting mode. A drive that isn't designed for Ultraspeeds can't write them, even at lower speeds. The Verbatim URW's aren't recogized by my colleague's Artec which does the NanYa's fine at 12x. I'm almost certain that my LTR 48246S won't be able to handle the 32x URW+, although I'm prepared to try this explicitly once I find them.

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Postby Mr. Birger on Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:44 pm

Since we (at least I) have come to the conclusion that it is only the Firmware in the recorder that decides on what speed you can record in, I wonder if there is someone else out there that have tried another Firmwares than the R52QS0C and R52QS0B on Lite-Ons LTR-52327S (and, of course, tried to burn Ultra Speed CD-RW discs) and have noticed if you can use lower recording speeds than only 16x as the slowest speed. And if you have done that, what was the name on the Firmware you used?

And now a question to you all that hopefully someone of you knows something about.

I have a LG 4040B DVD burner and when I used the Firmware A301 I could decide if I wanted to record in 12x or 16x with my Verbatim 16x-24x Ultra-Speed CD-RW discs but now with the A302 Firmware I can only choose the 16x speed.
Why have they taken away the 12x choice in the speed setting? Did the Firmware grow so big so it couldn't fit in my LG 4040B Firmware if they have decided to let it stay in the A302 FW?
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Postby rdgrimes on Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:31 pm

I've tried virtually every 7S firmware known, and do not recall ever seeing 10x speed available on US media.
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Postby dodecahedron on Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:32 pm

rdgrimes wrote:I've tried virtually every 7S firmware known, and do not recall ever seeing 10x speed available on US media.

too bad.
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