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DVD Decrypter and DVD shrink,What's the difference?

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Postby hoxlund on Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:58 am

quality? how can it be better than dvdshrink?

have you used dvd shrink? if it doesn't fit on a dvd, the quality will be lower regardless, because of compression
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Postby MikeTR on Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:25 pm

hoxlund wrote:quality? how can it be better than dvdshrink?

have you used dvd shrink? if it doesn't fit on a dvd, the quality will be lower regardless, because of compression


It's a little more complicated than that. DVDShrink (and similair programs) all re-encode the video material to make it fit on a single DVD. The main determining factor in size and quality is the transcoding engine that is used by the program. Every program has it's own way of re-encoding the video. For instance, like I stated above, DCS uses the same engine as DVD95Copy. DVDShrink has it's own transcoding engine, which is very good in compressing data while still retaining video quality.
However, the two best MPEG encoders (which is the basis of DVD compatible video) are TMPGEnc Plus and Cinema Craft Encoder (CCE). CCE is the encoding engine used by profesionals (and very expensive for the original SP version at $2000). TMPGEnc was created as a cheaper alternative ($50-70) and as a result CCE Basic was released. While not as full fledged as the SP version, it is in the same price class as TMPGEnc.
The 'Big three'guide I mentioned uses the CCE or TMPGEnc encoding engine to re-encode or transcode (never really figured out what the difference between the two terms really is) the video material. As a result, you'll have the highest possible quality while compressing the data enough to fit on one DVD. It takes a lot more work (and a fast PC) but it is worth it is you are a quality freak.
Compare it to encoding an MP3 using the LAME encoder or by using a program like MP3CDDoctor. The end result definately is different. It just depends on your view if it is wotrh the extra hassle.

Hope this complicates things even more than they were already :P .
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Postby NoSmartz on Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:10 pm

Complicated yes,but with some spare time it might be worth a try to see the results.I have had only 1 flick that I could tell it had been compressed severely.It was a movie that was almost 3 hours or 7.5 gb's.I might try the lengthy process to see if it can help.


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Postby hoxlund on Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:07 am

or just split the movie

cause if you encoded a movie using one of those expensive programs, i bet you, you couldn't tell the difference if you looked at them side by side and weren't told which one was which
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Postby NoSmartz on Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:18 am

I don't want to do 2 discs.Defeats the purpose of what compression is suppose to be for.I'll probably try it both ways to see what works.Who knows,DVD Shrink may just be the right way and I'll be wasting my time but I have lots of time.
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Postby hoxlund on Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:50 am

what i usually do is if dvd shrink says its gonna take like 60% or higher to get it on disk i usually split it
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Postby NoSmartz on Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:00 am

DVD Shrink hasn't gave me an option to compress to 60% yet.Highest I have gotten is 50%(3 movies).I thought anything Above 50% were "still pictures".Most movies are 25 to 30 for me.Acceptable.I have a 2 sided movie in the works so I' going to have to use 2 discs.I'm using DVD Shrink 2.3,does it go to 60% or is that DVD Shrink 3.0 only?
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Postby hoxlund on Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:06 am

use the beta 5 version, tons better, added so man options

one of the biggest additions is the automatic compression were it fills out the rest of the disk, so you get best compression percentage while filling a full dvd
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Postby NoSmartz on Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:18 am

DCS DVD Copy Suite does the same thing,automatically fills a full DVD(4.37) for best picture results.
Just installed DVD Shrink Beat 5,way easier than trying to pic the right compression.What is ratio(underneath Automatic)?Will it hurt to have Shrink 2.3 and 3.0 beta installed at the same time? :roll:



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Postby dodecahedron on Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:29 pm

MikeTR wrote:It's a little more complicated than that. DVDShrink (and similair programs) all re-encode the video material to make it fit on a single DVD. The main determining factor in size and quality is the transcoding engine that is used by the program. Every program has it's own way of re-encoding the video. For instance, like I stated above, DCS uses the same engine as DVD95Copy. DVDShrink has it's own transcoding engine, which is very good in compressing data while still retaining video quality.
However, the two best MPEG encoders (which is the basis of DVD compatible video) are TMPGEnc Plus and Cinema Craft Encoder (CCE). CCE is the encoding engine used by profesionals (and very expensive for the original SP version at $2000). TMPGEnc was created as a cheaper alternative ($50-70) and as a result CCE Basic was released. While not as full fledged as the SP version, it is in the same price class as TMPGEnc.
The 'Big three'guide I mentioned uses the CCE or TMPGEnc encoding engine to re-encode or transcode (never really figured out what the difference between the two terms really is) the video material. As a result, you'll have the highest possible quality while compressing the data enough to fit on one DVD. It takes a lot more work (and a fast PC) but it is worth it is you are a quality freak.

so which is better: TMPGEnc or CCE Basic?
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Postby treemana on Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:20 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
treemana wrote:I normally use DVD Decrypter to rip the files to my hard drive, and then use DVD Shrink to reencode the files on the hard drive. I believe this reduces "wear and tear" on my DVD drive since the drive is only accessed during the ripping step as opposed to the entire ripping/analyzing/reencoding process.

your words imply that DVD Shrink accesses the DVD not only during the ripping stage but also afterwards, after the ripping is done.

is this true? doesn't really make sense (to me), since all the data is on the hard drive, why need to access the DVD again?


Yes, DVD Shrink will access the DVD for the entire process. Normally 1.5 - 2hrs on my P3-933MHz machine (With "Perform Deep Analysis" turned on). When I use DVD Decrypter first, the DVD drive is only accessed during the ripping (about 30-40 min). So, by doing the separate ripping step, DVD drive access significantly is reduced.

As to "why" DVD Shrink accesses the DVD the entire time; it would appear that the ripping is done "on-the-fly" during the encoding step.

I may be over paranoid with this concern, but, I've already had one DVD drive die on me (Verbatim DVD+ Producer), so I'm taking it easy on my second drive.
Last edited by treemana on Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:42 pm

if that's the case, i too will first rip with DVD Decrypter and then use DVD Shrink on the files on the hard drive. i agree with your reasoning.
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Postby aviationwiz on Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:04 pm

I have always ripped with Smart Ripper before shrinking it. Lately though, I have just been doing everything with DVD Shrink. I always use Smart Ripper when only ripping a single layer DVD. Considering the reasoning put forth by treemana, I think I'll switch back to ripping all my DVD's with Smart Ripper before shrinking them.
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Postby MikeTR on Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:13 pm

dodecahedron wrote:so which is better: TMPGEnc or CCE Basic?


CCE is considered to be the better encoder, but that judgement is based on the SP version. The Basic version is the same encoder but less feature-rich (http://www.cinemacraft.com/eng/spec.html. Most important is the difference in ''encoding selections": SP offers multiple pass VBR and Basic is limited to 2-pass VBR. For most movies, this is plenty though (TMPGEnc Plus also has 2-pass VBR, but a different encoding engine). CCE SP is the best, but after that CCE Basic and TMPGEnc Plus are comparable. Just depends on your taste.
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Postby MikeTR on Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:19 pm

NoSmartz wrote:What is ratio(underneath Automatic)?Will it hurt to have Shrink 2.3 and 3.0 beta installed at the same time? :roll:
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I think it wouldn't hurt, but 3.0b5 is far better than 2.3.
Read the guides for info on ratio: http://www.dvdshrink.info/guides.php. Explains it better than I can.
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Postby NoSmartz on Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:46 pm

I may be over paranoid with this concern, but, I've already had one DVD drive die on me (Verbatum+ DVD Producer), so I'm taking it easy on my second drive.

You must have rip't a ton to wear it out.I just use my DVD-Rom to rip.Don't care if it wears out.I'll spend an extra $40.00 to get a new one.My Plextor only gets used for burnin' not readin'.
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Postby hoxlund on Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:48 pm

also deep analysing, i have found to not make one bit of difference with dvd shrink
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Postby treemana on Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:40 pm

NoSmartz wrote:
I may be over paranoid with this concern, but, I've already had one DVD drive die on me (Verbatum+ DVD Producer), so I'm taking it easy on my second drive.

You must have rip't a ton to wear it out.I just use my DVD-Rom to rip.Don't care if it wears out.I'll spend an extra $40.00 to get a new one.My Plextor only gets used for burnin' not readin'.

Yeah, either that or my first drive was a piece of crap!

[rant]If I seem a little hostile, it's because the parent company, Cendyne, went out of business so I couldn't get any warranty repair/replacement. Also, their rebate check bounced![/rant]

I agree with your logic of using a more "disposable" DVD-ROM drive for ripping.
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Postby hoxlund on Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:43 pm

i would recommend the LITE-ON XJ-HD166

16x ripping at $31.99 free shipping:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDe ... archdepa=0
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Postby NoSmartz on Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:35 pm

Yeah, either that or my first drive was a piece of crap!
[rant]If I seem a little hostile, it's because the parent company, Cendyne, went out of business so I couldn't get any warranty repair/replacement. Also, their rebate check bounced![/rant]



Yeah,I was sitting in a doctor's office reading a new issue of PCmag and it had an article,"Top DVD Burners".The reviewer made mention of Cendyne kickin' the bucket,doesn't matter though,that model wasn't worth a flip anyway.Sux about the rebate check.Sony did the same with me and some cd-r's.They owe me $11.00.It's been a year,I'm not anticipating my wallet getting any fatter any time soon. :roll:
The Lite-On is a great Rom drive.It's worth the bread.

Deep analyzing didn't help at all?I have time but not an a couple of hours.I was going to give it a try tomorrow on a rather large movie but I think I'll save my time.
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Postby UALOneKPlus on Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:10 am

Guys, it's not like it's a big freakin deal to use DVD Decrypter LOL. You make it sound like it's a bear to rip it first, and then Shrink.

Do what works for you. I use DVD Decrypter first (5-10 minutes), then I use DVD Shrink on the movie saved on the hard drive.

If you just wanna skip the "hassle" and do DVD Shrink all in one step, more power to you! :lol:

treemana wrote:
NoSmartz wrote:
I may be over paranoid with this concern, but, I've already had one DVD drive die on me (Verbatum+ DVD Producer), so I'm taking it easy on my second drive.

You must have rip't a ton to wear it out.I just use my DVD-Rom to rip.Don't care if it wears out.I'll spend an extra $40.00 to get a new one.My Plextor only gets used for burnin' not readin'.

Yeah, either that or my first drive was a piece of crap!

[rant]If I seem a little hostile, it's because the parent company, Cendyne, went out of business so I couldn't get any warranty repair/replacement. Also, their rebate check bounced![/rant]

I agree with your logic of using a more "disposable" DVD-ROM drive for ripping.
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dvdshrink

Postby kevincott on Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:35 pm

Is there a way to keep only an edited movie (less intro and exit) and the scene select menu?

I have tried with no success, but by just saving the edited movie you can FFward scenes like selecting tracks on a cd.

I would find it convenient to also have the scene select function of the menu with the movie.
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