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EasyWrite Reader question

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EasyWrite Reader question

Postby Pilgrim on Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:45 pm

It has been my understanding that EasyWrite Reader was created for two basic purposes (there might be more?).
    1. To allow computers that do not have Nero InCD to read data from CD-RW's that have been formatted with UDF or MRW formatting.
    2. To allow formatted CD-RWs to be read when inserted in a CD ROM.
Now, the reason I'm asking this question is mainly in regard to #2, although #1 is almost important as I often bring my program backup CD to friends' homes to share with them, especially when they are using a Dialup connection. But as far as #2 goes, this would make possible the copying on the fly of CD-RWs using the CD ROM as the source drive and the burner as the destination drive.

Perhaps I'm suffering from brain fade, but I seem to remember that I was able to do a "Copy to disc" using Nero Express or the full program and a formatted CD-RW in the CD ROM drive. However, using Nero 6 and InCD 4.0.56 and EasyWrite Reader 40013, none of my MRW formatted CD-RW discs can be read in my CD ROM.

Is this what the rest of you are experiencing also? If I am mistaken about how EasyWrite Reader is supposed to work, please straighten me out on this. :D

Jeff
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Postby Pilgrim on Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:19 pm

BUMP!!

Won't someone please take a formatted CD-RW disc (preferably one that has been formatted with MRW) and insert into your CD ROM and see if the contents can be read? Of course, EasyWrite Reader should be installed.

When I was running Nero 5.5x, InCD 3.x and EWR 1.x, I could read MRW formatted CD-RWs in my CD ROM. However, with Nero 6.x, InCD 4.x and EWR 4.0.0.13 none of my CD-RW discs are readable (all data files).

I was told that it is not possible nor intended that formatted CD-RW discs be readable in a CD ROM even with EasyWrite Reader. I'm just trying to either prove or disprove this.

Thanks,

Jeff
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Postby alchip80 on Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:57 pm

Pilgrim

This may not totally answer your question, as I do not have a "CD-ROM" drive. However that should not matter. I have no problems reading from a DVD player. In one system I still have nero v6.0.0.11, InCD v4.0.56 and EWR v4.0.0.14.

Now, you cannot burn using Nero or Express and burn to a MRW/InCD formatted CD-RW. Also using
Copy to disk functions in both attempts to copy the format also and Nero will balk.

However you can use Nero/Express with a blank CDRW and do a normal drag and drop copy from a
MRW/InCD formatted disk. You can also use a Formatted MRW/InCD disk in Explorer and just drag
and drop.
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Postby Pilgrim on Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:17 pm

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I'm aware you cannot use Nero Express or Burning ROM to burn to formatted CD-RWs.... but rather what I'm wanting to know is if a formatted CD-RW, particularly one that was formatted with MRW (Mount Rainier) can be READ in a CD ROM drive.

What I used to be able to do was to use "Copy Entire disc" in Nero Express with a formatted CD-RW in the CD ROM drive as the "Source" and a blank CD-R/RW (unformatted) in the CD-RW drive. Now, however, I am unable to READ a MRW formatted CD-RW disc in my CD-ROM, which I distinctly remember being able to do. And again, I was told that READING a CD-RW in a CD ROM drive with EasyWrite Read installed is not possible. Image even though this is exactly what I thought EWR was designed to do... i.e., make it possible for a PC, which did not have Nero and/or InCD installed, to READ a formatted CD-RW disc??

Perhaps I have totally misunderstood the purpose of EWR? Maybe the reading of such discs is restricted to only CD-RW drives? Image

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Postby alchip80 on Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:28 pm

Pilgrim

You may have tried this, uninstall EWR and reboot, then insert a Formatted CDRW with some files on it and see if a EWR message pops up.

It will give you an option to install directly from you CDRW.

As for as misunderstanding the purpose of the EWR, You haven't. It should work. But maybe Craig or some may correct me. :)
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Postby kaikow on Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:28 am

Pilgrim wrote:BUMP!!

Won't someone please take a formatted CD-RW disc (preferably one that has been formatted with MRW) and insert into your CD ROM and see if the contents can be read? Of course, EasyWrite Reader should be installed.

When I was running Nero 5.5x, InCD 3.x and EWR 1.x, I could read MRW formatted CD-RWs in my CD ROM. However, with Nero 6.x, InCD 4.x and EWR 4.0.0.13 none of my CD-RW discs are readable (all data files).

I was told that it is not possible nor intended that formatted CD-RW discs be readable in a CD ROM even with EasyWrite Reader. I'm just trying to either prove or disprove this.

Thanks,

Jeff


I've reported this same problem in other threads.

It appears that EWR 3.3.2.0 (or 1.0.1.0) can read the media, but EWR 4.* cannot.

It is now my belief that prior to EWR 4, EWR included code to handle problems caused by certain CD-ROM drives.

I posted the text below in another thread in this forum. Is your CD-ROM drive one of the drives listed in the registry key? If so, then I do believe the problem is that EWR 4 eliminated some code that handles those drives.

I would also expect similar code to be missing from Multimounter.

If this is indeed the problem, then Ahead should already have the appropriate code somewhere in the guts of Nero.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I found a list of what may be troublesome devices in the following key in
the Win 2000 registry.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Redbook\SpecialTargetList]

I wonder if each of those devices has to be treated in a special way by
software to account for some non-standard implementation by the device?

What is the purpose of that registry key?
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Postby dburg on Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:19 pm

I would like to precise what is the purpose of EWR, what it can do and what it cannot.

- Purpose: For Windows versions that are not natively able to read UDF, add UDF read capability. For devices that are not natively able to read MRW, *but* able to read packet-formatted CD-RW (CD-RW, method 2, mode 2 form 1), add MRW read capabilty

- What it can do: Read UDF 1.02 and UDF 1.5 under Windows 9x and Me (for NT 4 you will need InCD 4, sorry). Provide MRW feature to the above mentionned drives.

- What it cannot do: Add CD-RW read capability to a device that cannot read CD-RW (some CD-ROM devices unfortunately can't). Add MRW-write capabilities (some people ask for it... Not possible!)

The new EWR is based on InCD 4, thus it also has no device-list specific workarounds but attempt to follow the MMC specification. It is possible that devices that were working with previous version are now no more working. Please report to us these models when you found them, so we can maybe found a fix for them. (I must warn you that it will not always be possible as old devices might be impossible to found in order to debug the issue in our labs.)
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Postby kaikow on Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:46 pm

dburg wrote:I would like to precise what is the purpose of EWR, what it can do and what it cannot.

- Purpose: For Windows versions that are not natively able to read UDF, add UDF read capability. For devices that are not natively able to read MRW, *but* able to read packet-formatted CD-RW (CD-RW, method 2, mode 2 form 1), add MRW read capabilty

- What it can do: Read UDF 1.02 and UDF 1.5 under Windows 9x and Me (for NT 4 you will need InCD 4, sorry). Provide MRW feature to the above mentionned drives.

- What it cannot do: Add CD-RW read capability to a device that cannot read CD-RW (some CD-ROM devices unfortunately can't). Add MRW-write capabilities (some people ask for it... Not possible!)

The new EWR is based on InCD 4, thus it also has no device-list specific workarounds but attempt to follow the MMC specification. It is possible that devices that were working with previous version are now no more working. Please report to us these models when you found them, so we can maybe found a fix for them. (I must warn you that it will not always be possible as old devices might be impossible to found in order to debug the issue in our labs.)


Rewriting code which throws away device specific code is a no no. One of the biggest concerns in software design is not breaking existing code's functionality. To suddenly discard support for devices in not acceptable.

In the topic http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12633&sid=9164d5c7c02568d772187bd3f4b56de2, I pointed out a list of troublesome devices that is included in the Win 2000 registry. I would the list is there to facilitate processing such device exceptions.

I would expect that several, if not all, of those drives have a large customer base.

For one of those devices, the SCSI CD-ROM PLextor PX-32TSi, there is a known problem for multisession media which I learned from the author of ISOBuster. He was able to fix the problem without having the actual drive.
He sent me a beta which I tested.

I expect that EWR, prior to version 4, had the correct code to bypass that problem. If you do not have that code, then you might contact the author of ISOBuster to see if he can help. Indeed, such a problem could be the reason that the Volumes tab does not display in Multimounter on my system, tho Nero and Info tool do recognize all th sessions, apparently, correctly.

Note that tying EWR 4 to InCD 4 is not an excuse for EWR 4 failing to read CD-ROM drives that could be read by EWR 3.

Note that Nero is able to read media in the Plextor CD-ROM drive, so there's no reason this cannot also be done by EWR.
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Postby dburg on Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:00 pm

In an ideal world our current InCD team would had access to previous EWR's code. Unfortunately, it is only partially the case. Thus we've preserved the functionnality of the code we have, and recoded the parts we needed to complete. We've not did any intended discard of support.

I have just added a reply in the mentionned thread. I do not think this list can apply to EWR.

The problem you mention about Plextor device is unlikely to apply to EWR as this defect concerns multi-session disc and packet-writing medias (those where EWR may enter in action) are not written by session (but packet-formatted).

Btw, I do not intend to justify that EWR will not support device, but on the contrary we are aware that the changes we were forced to do might not provide as wide support as the previous EWR and that we are willing to improve it back thanks to the cooperation of some users.
David Burg
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76307 Karlsbad - Germany

fax: +49 (0)7248 928 299 http://www.nero.com
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Postby kaikow on Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:52 pm

dburg wrote:In an ideal world our current InCD team would had access to previous EWR's code. Unfortunately, it is only partially the case. Thus we've preserved the functionnality of the code we have, and recoded the parts we needed to complete. We've not did any intended discard of support.

I have just added a reply in the mentionned thread. I do not think this list can apply to EWR.

The problem you mention about Plextor device is unlikely to apply to EWR as this defect concerns multi-session disc and packet-writing medias (those where EWR may enter in action) are not written by session (but packet-formatted).

Btw, I do not intend to justify that EWR will not support device, but on the contrary we are aware that the changes we were forced to do might not provide as wide support as the previous EWR and that we are willing to improve it back thanks to the cooperation of some users.


The multisession issue could be affecting Multimounter.

And the incorrect numbering of track/MSF numbers does affect CD-R too.
That's where I am seeing the problem.

I do recall that we had a long discussion with Philips during the design of ISO/IEC 13490 about mapping of logical and physical sectors for packet writing as it affects the file system. My recollection, tho I now have less brain cells than back then, is that Philips was made aware of the issues and changed the way the mapping works.
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Postby dburg on Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:30 pm

The multimounter yes but this thread is about EWR ;).

The same about CD-R concerns, they are no EWR concerns.

I do not understand why ISO/IEC 13490 should matter here as this standard is for read only and write once medias, which (again) are no EWR concerns.
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Postby Howard Kaikow on Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:34 pm

dburg wrote:The multimounter yes but this thread is about EWR ;).

The same about CD-R concerns, they are no EWR concerns.

I do not understand why ISO/IEC 13490 should matter here as this standard is for read only and write once medias, which (again) are no EWR concerns.


The issue is the drive interface.
If the track/MSF info is being reported incorrectly, that would affect any software attempting to read the drive.

I mention 13490 because that is where packet writing is described vis a vis the volume and file structure. 13346 did not discuss packet writing. 13490m also decribes multisession in terms of the volume and file structure.
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