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How long do CD-Rs last?

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How long do CD-Rs last?

Postby Tonearm on Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:25 pm

How long should I expect a very carefully burned Mitsui CD-R to last?
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Postby cfitz on Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:53 pm

The lifetimes of carefully stored CD-R dics (in the dark, low humidity, moderate temperatures, protected from dust, dirt and moisture) is estimated to be anywhere from 20 to 100+ years, based on accelerated aging tests. In general discs made from more light sensitive dyes like cyanine fall at the lower end of the range, followed by Super AZO and AZO discs and finally phthalocyanine discs, due to phthalocyanine's natural relative resistance to light, at the upper end of the range. Of course, these claims are based on projected lifetimes rather than actual measured lifetimes. The projections are made based on accepted scientific principles, but unexpected variances can not be ruled out with 100% certainty. And lifetimes will vary according to the care with which the discs are manufactured in the first place, making discs from a reputable manufacturer a better choice for long life.

Mitsui discs are made with phthalocyanine dye and are supposed to have good archival characteristics, so you should expect a long lifetime from your discs. At one time Mitsui claimed a 200-year lifetime for their archival grade discs. You can read what Mitsui is currently claiming regarding their discs here:

http://www.mam-a.com/products/gold/archive.html

For maximum archival lifetime, a disc with a true gold reflective layer like the Mitsui Gold discs or the erstwhile Kodak Gold discs should be used.

For extra insurance, you should regularly test your archived discs for degradation, and copy to new discs if signs of trouble show up.

In the end, good quality discs burned on a good quality drive and handled with proper care and monitoring are likely to outlive the technology as a whole. In other words, the discs will be probably still be good when you can no longer buy readers for them and have long since transferred their contents to newer technologies.

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Postby burninfool on Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:42 pm

How do Mitsui CD-R's compare to Taiyo Yuden?I know Mitsubishi use AZO dye because I use Verbatim.
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Postby cfitz on Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:08 am

I bought a few 80-minute 24x Mitsui silver discs for experimentation (they are quite expensive, so I didn't buy more than one batch), and was disappointed with their initial burn quality in both my Yamaha and LiteOn burners. The C1 error levels were acceptable in the inner areas of the disc, but rose towards the outer edge and even showed some C2 errors. Strangely, the discs burned better at 40x in the LiteOn:

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All of the above were read at 48x. Reading at 8x improved things by eliminating the C2 errors:

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Even at the reduced reading speed, however, the error levels are not as good as Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim DataLifePlus error levels read at full 48x speed:

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The summary? In my limited testing with Mitsui media, it's initial burn quality is in the okay to not-so-good range depending on burning and reading speeds. Taiyo Yuden is consistently and convincingly better. However, this is not the whole story. The Mitsui discs use phthalocyanine dye that is fundamentally more stable than the cyanine dye used in Taiyo Yuden discs. Therefore, over the long run the Mitsui discs may hold up better. Anyway, that is what Mitsui claims. I haven't had them long enough to make my own conclusions in that regard.

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Postby Harrier on Sun Mar 23, 2003 2:42 pm

cfitz wrote:Even at the reduced reading speed, however, the error levels are not as good as Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim DataLifePlus error levels read at full 48x speed:

Image

Image

The summary? In my limited testing with Mitsui media, it's initial burn quality is in the okay to not-so-good range depending on burning and reading speeds. Taiyo Yuden is consistently and convincingly better. However, this is not the whole story. The Mitsui discs use phthalocyanine dye that is fundamentally more stable than the cyanine dye used in Taiyo Yuden discs. Therefore, over the long run the Mitsui discs may hold up better. Anyway, that is what Mitsui claims. I haven't had them long enough to make my own conclusions in that regard.

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We should ask of you to check the same cds when they are one/two/three months old...
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 23, 2003 2:45 pm

Harrier wrote:We should ask of you to check the same cds when they are one/two/three months old...

I keep telling myself I will set up some sort of semi-controlled longer term test one of these days... :oops:

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Postby Harrier on Sun Mar 23, 2003 3:30 pm

Be waiting for that.
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 23, 2003 3:33 pm

I will glady post what I find when (if??) I get around to it. But in the meantime you should do your own tests with the media you normally use. You live in Israel, right? So some of the media you can buy I can't, and some of the media I buy you can't.

In general I urge everyone to run their own tests, to the best of their abilities, in addition to using online resources compiled by others.

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Postby Harrier on Sun Mar 23, 2003 3:41 pm

I was already on my way to test some poopy cds.
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 23, 2003 4:06 pm

Harrier wrote:I was already on my way to test some poopy cds.

That sounds like a confidence inspiring brand... :lol: :lol:

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Postby technut on Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:05 am

cfitz wrote:All of the above were read at 48x. Reading at 8x improved things by eliminating the C2 errors...

cfitz


Hi cfitz! I assume that you were able to reduce read speed to 8x using an option in your testing app. But in the "real world", is that an option when reading from a CD, CDR or CDRW?
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Postby cfitz on Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:27 am

Actually, yes it is. Nero comes with a utility named "DriveSpeed" (also available at www.cdspeed2000.com) that allows you to fix the maximum reading speed for your drive. Also, the drive itself will automatically slow down if it detects errors that interfere with reading.

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Postby Turkeyscore.com on Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:57 pm

Yeah, by the time your CDr wears out, you probably wont care....
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Postby CignaXI on Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:00 am

For me in the real life the cdmedia lifetime doesn't depends on the maker but how you store it. It has to be a real cheap manufacture to make real bad media. If you buy cheap media and you store it well ( I assume that is what you will do if the data is important ) then it would last all your life.

I don't know but I still find floppies more reliable on data storage than cds. I have many times let fall my cds accidentally loosing the data for a scratch on the media. Floppies I can let then fall all I want without any preoccupation. But I can't compare 1.4m with 800m.

The next technology should come up with better protection.
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:05 pm

CignaXI wrote:I don't know but I still find floppies more reliable on data storage than cds. I have many times let fall my cds accidentally loosing the data for a scratch on the media. Floppies I can let then fall all I want without any preoccupation. But I can't compare 1.4m with 800m.

You've had better luck with floppies than I have the last while. I've made a habit of rereading every file I put on a floppy before assuming it's there. I've had way too many CRC errors and unreadable files. :evil: I have not yet had a CDR that was good when burned go bad on me (... knock on wood).

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Postby CignaXI on Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:40 pm

Does are signs that your floppy drive is broke. That happened to me and I just changed the drive and the problem was gone.

PS: Nothing is perfect; everything has its pros and contras
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