Home News Reviews Forums Shop


Ideas on some bad Fuji (TY) media.

Burn baby burn!

Ideas on some bad Fuji (TY) media.

Postby rdgrimes on Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:10 pm

Please peruse this thread:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php ... adid=65151

I would love to hear any theories on this rather odd phenomenon with a batch of Fuji media. :(
rdgrimes
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA

Postby BuddhaTB on Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:37 pm

I think the horrible C1/C2 errors related to the colored Fuji disc aree only related to that batch. Other people in that thread stated that their colored Fuji's had no problems. It's just a bad batch. Maybe the process of appling colored swirls to the top of the CD had something to do with it being such poor quality.

Everyone should continue to use Fuji media as they are simply the best and those results are just related to that bad batch out of millions that TY has made.
User avatar
BuddhaTB
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1865
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:50 pm
Location: Southern California (LA & Orange County)

Postby rdgrimes on Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:59 pm

Everyone should continue to use Fuji media as they are simply the best and those results are just related to that bad batch out of millions that TY has made.

I'm not the first to report problems with these particular discs. This is not about whether TY makes good media or not. It may in fact be a flaw that is particular to the coloring on the disc, compatability with particular drives, a combination of the 2, or something else entirely. What's of interest is the apparent correlation to the colors on the discs, which is not consistant with the theory that this is just a "bad batch".
rdgrimes
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA

Postby cfitz on Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:03 am

Interesting about the spiral on the label side being clearly visible from the dye side. Certainly if the reflective layer is too thin, that which is on the other side of it could affect the ability to read the data. The correlation between color of disc and burn quality is intriguing in this respect. I'd like to speculate that with an excessively thin reflective layer some label colors, when viewed from the recording side of the disc, enhance the contrast/reflectivity of the recorded dye/reflective layer while others degrade it. I can't offer any proof of this, though. And the spiral itself offers some argument against the hypothesis:

Image
(from http://www.fujifilmmediasource.com/cdr.asp)

All of the discs, regardless of color, share a common characteristic: the silver portion of the spiral. That would rule out the color of the label improving the contrast/reflectivity, because such an argument wouldn't apply to the silver portion of the spiral that every discs shares. Errors on the silver portion would show up on every color disc. But it doesn't rule out the color of the label, as seen through an excessively thin reflective layer, degrading the contrast/reflectivity. The discs might be readable on the silver portions and green/orange portions, but not the red/blue portions.

It would be interesting if we could correlate the color of the label to the electromagnetic spectrum and the laser wavelength, but it doesn't work out so neatly. The laser and the poorly performing red discs are together at the opposite end of the spectrum from the poorly performing blue discs, with the passable green and orange lying in between. On the other hand, the visible spectrum characteristics of the label pigments might have nothing to do with their characteristics in the infrared portion of the spectrum.

It could also be that the correlation by color has to do with the manufacturing timeline. It is possible, although not likely in my opinion, that the different colored discs were made at different times, and that explains the observed discrepancies. It is more likely that they were at least made on different lines within the plant, but again, who knows?

This is all just empty speculation on my part. Why don't you write to Fuji and see what they have to say. They do provide a lifetime warranty, and they might be interested in knowing they had a quality control problem.

cfitz

P.S. Did you try running CD Doctor at 8x CLV and see how the discs read at slower speeds?
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby cfitz on Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:09 am

rdgrimes wrote:What's of interest is the apparent correlation to the colors on the discs, which is not consistant with the theory that this is just a "bad batch".

I missed a few posts while I was composing my essay. I would say that the correlation to color could be consistent with the theory that this is just a bad batch. It would be consistent if the problem with the batch is that the reflective layer is too thin, and that thinness allows the label side to then affect the reading characteristics of the data side.

I think I explained this in my original post (at least I tried to), but I believe it deserves reiteration given the specific questions about whether or not this could simply be a bad batch.

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby rdgrimes on Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:17 am

I checked one of them at 8x read speed, and it was hugely better:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php ... post395889

Interesting stuff.
rdgrimes
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA

Postby cfitz on Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:31 am

Would it be interesting to color some or all of the silver portions on the label sides of the better orange and green discs with black, blue or red permanent marker or spray paint* and see if that changes their reading characteristics?

cfitz

* I'm a little leary that the spray paint may flake off when spinning at high speeds if it doesn't adhere well, or unbalance the disc if you don't apply it evenly, or eat through the protective lacquer and invalidate the test. So, do so at your own risk.
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby rdgrimes on Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:55 am

I was thinking about slapping a label on them

Edit:
I stuck a white glossy label on one blue one and it made it even worse! CDDoctor couldn't finish. I took my sharpie and collored all the silver on another blue one, didn't seem to make much difference.
rdgrimes
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA

Postby cfitz on Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:23 am

How about altering the orange and green ones that are of moderate quality in their unaltered state? If my hypothesis is correct, then the blue and red labels have already degraded the readability of the discs, so altering them can't make them any better. But altering the orange and green ones might make them worse, which would tell you something.

The stick-on label results might give some support for my hypothesis that the reflective layer is defectively thin and allowing what is on the label side of the disc to influence the readability of the data side. But then again they might just indicate that the label unbalanced the disc and thus made it even harder to read.

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am


Return to CD-R/CD-RW Drives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron
All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2017 CDRLabs Inc.