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joliet filename length limitations, semi-colon in filename?

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joliet filename length limitations, semi-colon in filename?

Postby tgw on Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:10 pm

Two questions...

First, as most people probably know, Joliet has a filename length limitation of 64 characters (at 16 bits per character). What not so many know is that you can safely ignore this limit with Windows and your filenames will be read just fine. (You can either use Golden Hawk's CDRWin, or you can modify cdrtools.)

Does anyone know what the actual file length limit is before it causes problems with various operating systems? Via hearsay, the various flavors of Windows are all ok to "about 110 characters" (I've tested 95 osr2, 98, ME and XP and they're ok for 108 characters). And I guess rather than being lazy I'll try various other lengths.

However, how about other os? Anyone have any experience with doing this under linux, bsd, sunos, macos, etc?

Second question... Is it possible to have a semi-colon in a joliet filename, without it being interpreted by Windows as the version marker?
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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:31 am

Joliet is a filesystem used for CDs. it is not the filysystem used by Windows operating system.
so there is no 64 char limit for files on your hard drives (under Windows).

AFAIK unix/linux have even less restrictions on filename lengths/directory depths.
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Postby tgw on Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:05 pm

dodecahedron said:
Joliet is a filesystem used for CDs. it is not the filysystem used by Windows operating system. so there is no 64 char limit for files on your hard drives (under Windows).

AFAIK unix/linux have even less restrictions on filename lengths/directory depths.


Thanks for responding, but I think that you don't understand what I'm talking about.

To clarify... I am burning CDs with a Joliet filesystem that does NOT strictly conform to the Joliet specification (I'm extending the length of the file name past Microsoft's 64 character specification). Windows will correctly read a CD with this non-conformance. I am concerned about what will happen when I take such a CD to other operating systems that are capable of reading Joliet.

By the way, Joliet is in fact used by and native to Windows since the release of Windows 95.
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:17 pm

tgw wrote:I am burning CDs with a Joliet filesystem that does NOT strictly conform to the Joliet specification (I'm extending the length of the file name past Microsoft's 64 character specification). Windows will correctly read a CD with this non-conformance. I am concerned about what will happen when I take such a CD to other operating systems that are capable of reading Joliet.

By the way, Joliet is in fact used by and native to Windows since the release of Windows 95.


i would sure like to know how you burn a CD with a "Joliet" filesystem that does not conform to the Joliet specs.
when i tried to burn using Nero, it TRUNCATED the filenames so they would be 64 characters in length.
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4384


as for windows - i am no expert, but i believe that the Joliet filesystem is a filesystem developed for CDs, and it is not the "native" filesystem of the Windows operating system.
hence, it is quite possible to have files in Windows with names of more than 64 characters. and also more than 8 directories deep.

i know Joliet is supported since Win95.
as for your question, will windows (various variants) recognize your non-spec Joliet CDs - i don't know.

from my little experience using cdrecord+mkisofs under Linux, i remember using both the -J and -R flags (if i remember them right) so that the iso file/burned CD will contain both the Joliet and the Rock Ridge filesystems, and thus be readable both under windows and linux.
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Postby tgw on Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:08 am

dodecahedron why are you wasting space and time by posting?

Authoring Joliet >64 char names: Re-read first post.

Joliet native to Windows: Hard drives aren't the only storage devices for which an os uses a filesystem. Given that you refer to Joliet as a CD filesystem, it would seem that you should understand this, but apparently not.

Windows support for Joliet >64 char filenames: Re-read first post.

Rock Ridge: I'm looking for information on Joliet, not Rock Ridge.
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Postby dimitri on Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:47 am

Tgw,

being rude would get you nowhere. I wanted to enter this discussion but I lost my appetite.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:51 pm

tgw wrote:dodecahedron why are you wasting space and time by posting?

dimitri wrote:Tgw,

being rude would get you nowhere. I wanted to enter this discussion but I lost my appetite.

yeah, sad isn't it?
they guy comes asking questions and looking for help, but is rude when someone else asks something :evil:

dodecahedron wrote:as for windows - i am no expert, but i believe that the Joliet filesystem is a filesystem developed for CDs, and it is not the "native" filesystem of the Windows operating system.
hence, it is quite possible to have files in Windows with names of more than 64 characters. and also more than 8 directories deep.

tgw wrote:Joliet native to Windows: Hard drives aren't the only storage devices for which an os uses a filesystem. Given that you refer to Joliet as a CD filesystem, it would seem that you should understand this, but apparently not.

well, like i said i'm no expert.
i blieve that Joliet is a CD filesystem. i could be wrong. if that's the case just say so instead of being offensive.

tgw wrote:However, how about other os? Anyone have any experience with doing this under linux, bsd, sunos, macos, etc?

dodecahedron wrote:from my little experience using cdrecord+mkisofs under Linux, i remember using both the -J and -R flags (if i remember them right) so that the iso file/burned CD will contain both the Joliet and the Rock Ridge filesystems, and thus be readable both under windows and linux.

tgw wrote:Rock Ridge: I'm looking for information on Joliet, not Rock Ridge.

considering your first question, and considering the fact that cdrecord is available under the Windows OS too, i think my comment is not altoghether out of place.

next time you come visiting here, try to be a little more friendly 8)
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Postby Inertia on Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:53 am

tgw,

I agree that you were rude. :-?

It is not possible to have a semicolon in a Joliet filename as it is an excluded character.

The Joliet specification states re character set:

All UCS-2 code points shall be allowed except for the following UCS-2 code points:

All code points between (00)(00) and (00)(1F), inclusive. (Control Characters)
(00)(2A) '*'(Asterisk)
(00)(2F) '/' (Forward Slash)
(00)(3A) ':' (Colon)
(00)(3B) ';' (Semicolon)
(00)(3F) '?' (Question Mark)
(00)(5C) '\' (Backslash)

As dodecahedron has stated, the Joliet filename length limitation of 64 characters is not a limit with Windows, but a nominal specification limit to the extended ISO 9660 standard. Most burning software supports only this 64 chararcter limit and will truncate any additional characters. Some software such as the Prassi variations (Click 'n Burn, Record Now Max, Sony CD Extreme, etc.) will allow extended Joliet filenames up to 106 characters in length.

Theoretically, since it presumably still adheres to a version of the Joliet standard, these 100+ long filenames should be readable by Joliet compatible operating systems. Practically speaking, since this is a little used subset of the Joliet standard, it would have to be tested to confirm the results. I doubt that it would cause problems with any Joliet compatible operating system. The filename length limitation is not with Windows (or probably any other Joliet compatible operating system), but with the specification itself and the burning software technique used to implement the Joliet ISO 9660 extension.
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Postby tgw on Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:57 pm

Inertia-

First, thanks for pointing out that I'm rude. I might not have known otherwise.

Regarding semi-colons in filenames. I've been looking into it since my original post.

It should be very apparent that I'm not adverse to taking liberties with the Joliet spec. Didn't find any evidence that there's any sort of configuration in Windows for this, so two other solutions:

1. Modify code. The first instance of char 003b in the Joliet name is interpreted by Windows as the start of the version marker, and it appears in Win98 anyway that the name simply truncates at the semi-colon with the remainder ignored. Very simple patch to change the version marker comparison from semi-colon to an asterisk. Also need to burn names without versions unless you want ;# at the end of names.

2. Replace char 003b with char 037e (Greek questionmark). It'll give a visual representation if the appropriate font is available.

Neither of these are particularly good solutions for my purposes.

Regarding file name length. Your assumptions have no merit. This is like assuming the next spin of a roulette wheel will fall on black. Re-read first message, and ponder why I asked the question about practical knowledge.

Thank you (no sarcasm intended this time) for pointing out that Prassi will also burn >64 char names in Joliet. I'll try it later.

Fortunately, there exist people who are more interested in the subject at hand than in focusing on my personality (or lack thereof). I don't see any value in continuing to participate on this forum (certainly, "Notify me when a reply is posted" has been made a worthless annoyance). But, for anyone interested in Joliet name length limitations, I'll try to post the results of my testing somewhere easy to find when I'm done.
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Postby Inertia on Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:44 am

Nobody is focusing on your personality. Your antisocial persona is blatantly manifested, and you make sure that it can't be ignored. This is not an assumption.

Personally, I would be happy never to hear from you again and have no interest whatever in any testing information from you.

Go away, and don't come back.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:42 am

this guy sure has a sunny disposition. :lol:
considering the fact that some members of this forum tried to answer his questions and help him out (with varying degrees of success)...

as for me, tgw, i've done my best to offer you what help i could.
sorry it wasn't of much help to you, and it's a shame that you think my posting is a waste of time and space.
however i would appreciate your posting the results here, i would like to see them.

good luck :wink:
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