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LTR-48246K?!

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LTR-48246K?!

Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:50 am

What the heck is that?

I almost bought one, but then stopped. Then looked around, and seems that every shop here only has 6K and not 6S drives? Are they any better/worse? What about firmware? Can I use 6S firmware with it?

Please do tell me, for I am scared (they're invading us, run for your life!)
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:01 am

There are several threads about this drive at CDFreaks. You can check them out here and here.

You can't use 6S firmwares with it; the drive apparently won't work.
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:18 am

Allrighty, here come my first observations!

Installing was painless - put it in, plugged, booted, set to udma, rebooted and there it is.

Now the burning. The only media I have atm is a 50pcs spindle pack of Verbatim DataLifePlus SuperAZO, which smartburn identified as:

Code: Select all
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
     Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
            ATIP Lead-in = 97m 34s 23f
       Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Mistubishi,Colombo
  SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 48X


Sooo, I burned 3 cds, and results follow:

#1 CD
Forgot to check the size:p
Burn mode: Track-At-Once
Burn speed: 48x
Burn time: 2m34s

KProbe output, read speed 48x:
Image

KProbe output, read speed 40x:
Image

#2 CD
CD Size: 679mb
Burn mode: Disk-At-Once
Burn speed: 48x
Burn time: 2m35s

KProbe output, read speed 48x:
Image

#3 CD
CD Size: 683mb
Burn mode: Disk-At-Once
Burn speed: 40x
Burn time: 3m00s

KProbe output, read speed 48x:
Image


Now, I have no idea what C1/C2 rates should be, so I'll let Pro's to comment on that 8)

One thing I would like to know is.. that obvious jump in C1 errors in mid of cds.. this is media issue, right? Don't tell me I have to worry about my shiny new cd burner... :-?

Cheers!=)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:40 am

For myself, I judge error rates like this:

Very Good Disc: C1 Max <25 + Average <2.000
C2 Max <00 + Average <0.000

Good Disc: C1 Max <40 + Average <5.000
C2 Max <00 + Average <0.000

....ok....I guess: C1 Max <50 + Average <10.000
C2 Max <05 + Average <1.000

Bad, but usually works: C1 Max <200 + Average <25.000
C1 Max <20 + Average <10.000

Very Bad!! C1 Max >200 + Average >25.000
C2 Max >20 + Average >10.000

That's only my PERSONAL opinion though.

I would consider the spikes in your tests a VERY serious problem. If you're lucky, it is a compatability issue, or possibly a bad batch of media. However, Mitsubishi Chemicals media is usually VERY high quality, and most of the scans of seen of their CDs make my listing for "very good" look more like "ok.....I guess"

I suggest lowering your read speed to 32x and trying again and see if there are significant differences. Personally, I prefer 32x for testing as I find that my drive has a tendancy of putting in a single spike of C2 errors in the same place EVERY time a do a test at speeds greater than 32x...
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:06 am

Well, tried Lead Data CD-R 16x, and the results are:

(burn speed 16x, read speed 48x):
Image


So is there anything wrong with the burner?;p
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:16 am

Well, one thing which you should know is that newer burners almost always make a higher quality burn at their highest speed with high-speed media. This is why you got better results burning the Verbatim at 48x than at 40x.

Also, I have heard reports of Lite-On drives not doing well with Verbatim media, despite that Verbatim is definitely good media. If you can get some 48x-rated Fuji media, you should give that a try, as it is made by Taiyo Yuden, which means that it is very high quality.
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:31 am

Those aren't particularly happy results so far, particularly the C2 errors on the last burn (although the large C1 spikes on the Verbatim discs are disturbing as well). But, as LiteOnGuy suggested, try a few more brands of media before coming to any conclusions.

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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:20 pm

ok guys you're scaring me.

i'll do some more tests with different sets of files, and later i'll get few mmore 48x disks and try those. if there is one thing i hate it is returning item with a reason i can't show black on white..
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:54 pm

I'm sorry if I've caused you some distress; there's no reason to be scared. As I stated earlier, these Verbatims may just not be the best possible media for this drive. The results you showed for them aren't the best, but they will work fine unless you are reading them in an extremely poor reader. My personal favorite brands of media (for good burning results) are Imation (32x is great, I haven't used any faster ones yet) and Fuji. Ritek-made TDKs have also worked well for me.
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:57 pm

I thought of something and did it immediately: digged through my carefully keeped CDs and found on from the same spindle, burned on Teac CD-W548E (not sure if it was 40x that I burned it at, or 48x), ran it through KProbe, and here are the results:

Image

Anyone else can see the pattern? What are the odds that this spindle has some quirks?[/quote]
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:03 pm

That last one was from the same spindle of Verbatims, right? If so, it looks like your problem is with the discs, not the burner. I certainly notice the pattern where all of the C1 errors spike at the same place!
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:19 pm

yep, same pack

i'm gonna see what other media have we got here. problem is, i'm kinda low on budget, so i try to save where i prolly shouldnt - i got that 50pcs spindle of Verbatims for 17.4euro, and even it was a bit more than I usually pay for my cdrs (talk about the crap I buy!), I thought that Verbatims are surely gonna be hell of a cdr.. Woops;p
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:22 pm

That is a little more comforting, as it does tend to implicate the Verbatim media and not the new drive.

As for the quality of Verbatim SuperAZO media in general, it is usually quite good. But it is made in a number of different factories, and some people have reported some mixed quality from different factories:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9688

It is also possible that you just stumbled across a batch that wasn't quite up to their usual standards.

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Last edited by cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:27 pm

anything you know about MMore disks?
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:35 pm

I've no personal experience with them. But the main reason I am posting this reply is to alert you to the fact that I edited my last post and included a link to some discussion about Verbatim media. Since you already read that earlier post and replied to it, you might not have noticed the edit I made.

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:07 pm

possibly a silly question, but are those Verbatim Datalife discs? or are they DataLifePlus???
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:16 pm

Those were DataLifePlus.

Got my hands on another media:

Code: Select all
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
     Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
            ATIP Lead-in = 97m 17s 06f
       Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = India,MoserBaer   
  SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 48X


Box says MMore 48x - no manufacturing country found :)

And well, here are the results - burned @ 48x of course:
Image

Much better, but not quite elite yet - considering i saw stuff like average 0.1 C1 error rate;)

So, any comments from the Pro's? :)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:32 pm

I'd stick with those :) They seem to be compatible with your drive, and producing good results.

pleasent burning! 8)
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Postby MediumRare on Thu May 01, 2003 8:47 am

I've been offline for a couple of days, otherwise I would have waded in earlier. :wink:
QQ wrote:anything you know about MMore disks?

I've used the MMore's and they're fine. As you've found out they're made by MBI. Your results are similar to what I've experienced, both with 24x and 48x rated. There are some reports at CDFreaks that MBI's are not very durable. I have no personal experience- my 6 month old disks are all fine.

You may want to see if you can find Verbatim DataLife Pastel disks. They are cheaper here (Frankfurt, Germany) than the MMore's and are made by TY. Personally, I don't care for the pastel colours and use mostly the DataLifePlus (40x, 48x, mostly made in India). I've also had good results with SKC (picked up some 12-rated disks that were super @32x (SmartBurn max) and @48x after disabling SmartBurn.

It looks like you got a bad spindle. On the other hand, I think that even with peak C1-values of 100 or less, you'll be fine. We tend to get spoiled with the very low values shown by K's Probe etc. for TY and (normally) Verbatim. Don't forget that these are correctable errors and a lot of pressed disks have higher rates. The specs require BLER values < 200 (this is "sort of" like C1s read @1x).

So in your case, I'd just burn that spindle @48x (you have higher max-C1 @40x) and test them with KProbe @max read speed. It'll probably be gone sooner than you like :D . Start worrying only if C2's show up.

G
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Postby QQ on Mon May 26, 2003 10:37 am

Yeah, I'm not really warred about the quality of cds, I was more worried about the burner itself (the spikes). Now I bought a spindle of MoserBaer (MMoer 48x, 50 pieces, for 15$), no spikes, avg C1 of 1.6. Sometime later I'll try Verbatim again and see what I get.
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