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Official K-Probe Discussion (Tool for Scanning C1C2/PIPO)

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby cfitz on Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:07 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Why don't we all send un-happy e-mails to liteON for removing the best reason to own their drives. Maybe if they see that a lot of people who were major supporters of their product are considering turning to other manufacturers, we may see a change? well probably not, but after all the hard work Karr went to, I think we should at least try.

That might be a good idea, but out of respect and concern for Karr, we probably should get his permission first. We wouldn't want to inadvertently make things worse by trying to make things better.

Sending emails to Lite-On about this may have unexpected negative consequences for Karr. For example, it might anger the management. Something like, "Karr, now we are having to deal with angry customers because of you. If you had never released those programs we wouldn't be having problems now." It also may resurrect an issue that had already been put to sleep or bring it to the unhappy attention of others in Lite-On who are not already aware of the situation.

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Postby cfitz on Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:10 pm

I see rdgrimes posted the same general thought while I was typing my reply. I agree with you, rdgrimes. It is probably best to leave this alone, unless Karr instructs us otherwise.

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Postby CDHero on Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:50 pm

cfitz wrote:I see rdgrimes posted the same general thought while I was typing my reply. I agree with you, rdgrimes. It is probably best to leave this alone, unless Karr instructs us otherwise.

cfitz




Have it your way. Anything is fine by me.
Thank you very much !
Thank you very much !
Thank you very much !
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Postby cfitz on Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:35 pm

Hang in there Karr! We are on your side. :)

For anyone who does wish to write an email, please make it calm and respectful, not angry and recriminating. Remember that Lite-On has valid business needs as well, and what we would really like is a compromise where everyone can be happy with Karr continuing to develop and support his great tools.

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:13 am

What e-mails really need is some sort of mood setting, or possibly mood tags. Maybe something along the lines of:

<mood="calm, yet unsatisfied">
Dear LiteON IT,

I have recently received word that you have decided to discontinue Karr Wang's K-Probe and other pieces of software. In response to this I would like to inform you that I feel Mr. Wang's software is one of the best selling features of your CD-R/W drives, this is even more true for your DVD+R/W drive. I hope you will take the time to consider the strong impact your decison has, and will make, on the future purchase decisions of the CD/DVD-burning community.

I hope that you will re-think your decision to shut down Mr. Wang's software, but I will understand if you do not. I hope you will be equally understanding if in the future I choose to go with another brand that does support their CD-R testing software.

Sincerely,
The Digital Dolphin
</mood>

How's that sound?
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Postby cfitz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:32 am

That seems reasonable. I don't plan to threaten to take my business elsewhere, but will just tell them I am disappointed in what has happened, explain why I like Karr's tools and think they help Lite-On sales, and ask if some compromise can be reached where Karr doesn't include features that might cause problems for Lite-On (like damaged drives that would have to be repaired under warranty or disclosure of trade secrets) and they allow him to continue developing and distributing his software.

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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:43 am

I'm going to write an email as well. I'm not a huge Lite-On fan, but the only reason why I love Lite-On DVD drives is because I can test the quality of the DVD's.
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Postby CDRecorder on Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:55 am

Your e-mail sounds pretty good, dolphinius_rex. Where might I find an e-mail address to use to contact Lite-On?
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:57 am

Yeah, I was going to ask that as well, I can't find an address.
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Postby Bhairav on Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:01 am

How's this?

"Dear Sir,
Hello. My name is Bhairav Patel. I have been a long-time Lite-On user, and currently own two Lite-On drives, a 48125W and a 52246S. They are both excellent drives and have given me good service, with excellent burns on various media.
As you may know,there are a few excellent resources for reviews and discussions of CDR/RW related topics on the Internet. I frequent two of the best, cdrlabs.com and cdfreaks.com. Recently, a Lite-On IT employee, Mr Karr Wang, posted on the sites that he had developed some excellent tools for use with Lite-On CDR/RW and DVD-ROM drives, namely KProbe,MInfo and LTNFlash.These tools gave the Lite-On end user various abilities,including:

1)Checking for C1/C2 errors and PI/PO errors on burnt CD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW discs.

2)Giving accurate information about the media being used.

3)Easy flashing of firmware.

However, due to some internal problem, Mr Wang has apparently been asked to remove these tools from his site.These tools have added a lot of functionality to the Lite-On products, and we end users have greatly appreciated them. I,along with the rest of the readers of CDRlabs.com and CDFreaks.com humbly request you to allow Mr Wang to continue development of these tools, and host them on his website.

Mr Wang is an excellent engineer and an asset to your company.I hope this request does not impede his work in any way and allows him to continue with Lite-On.

Thanking you,and hoping for a positive reply,
Bhairav Patel.
"
The only email address I could find on their site was: marketing_us@liteonit.com
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Postby cfitz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:03 am

Here is what I was thinking of sending:

Dear ...

I am writing in regard to the software tools KProbe, MInfo and LtnFlash that work with Lite-On optical drives. I don't know all of the details, but my understanding is that these tools were developed by one of your employees, Mr. Karr Wang, and that Mr. Wang has recently been instructed to stop developing these tools and making them available to Lite-On customers.

I would urge you to reconsider this decision. The tools that Mr. Wang has developed are highly valued in the CD and DVD burning enthusiasts' community. He has done an excellent job creating these tools, and they provide many useful features for understanding and enjoying our Lite-On drives. These tools add a lot of value to the Lite-On product line and really differentiate it from other brands. Because of this, they are a strong selling point.

I myself have purchased four Lite-On drives, and a large part of my decision to purchase Lite-On was based on the availability of useful tools like KProbe and LtnFlash. I personally know many others who feel the same way. And I contribute frequently to Internet CD/DVD forums under the pseudonym "cfitz", where I often recommend Lite-On specifically because of the tools Mr. Wang developed.

I understand that Lite-On, as a business, has valid concerns about the release of some tools. For example, you may be concerned that a particular feature may allow a user to accidentally damage a drive or reveal a Lite-On trade secret. But would it be possible to arrange a compromise that would allow Lite-On to protect its interests while at the same time allowing Mr. Wang to continue developing and distributing his tools? I think this would make everyone happy, and would be a benefit to Lite-On as well as Lite-On customers.

Regards,

...

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Postby cfitz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:04 am

That's a good letter, Bhairav. I think your last paragraph was a very nice touch.

I haven't found good contact information yet, but will continue looking.

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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:20 am

Hows this sound?

Code: Select all
Dear sir or madam,

I am writing about software products that work with Lite-On optical drives, mainly KProbe, which was written by Mr. Karr Wang. From my understandings, he has been told to stop development and distribution of these tools. I find that is a very big mistake on your part as a company. These tools allow users to check the quality of their CD’s, as well as many other features, which work only with Lite-On drives. I sometimes recommend Lite-On products entirely because of this feature, brought to Lite-On by Mr. Wang. Since that tool is no longer available, I am now recommending only other brands, such as Plextor, because of this situation. The reason I do that is because Plextor, and other companies are apparently able to keep their tools out there. I love my Lite-On DVD-ROM drive because I can use KProbe to check the quality of my DVD burns, once again, a feature brought to Lite-On by Mr. Wang. I also understand that you may not like some of the features of Mr. Wang’s different tools, I think that some reasonable agreement should be reached, allowing Mr. Wang to continue his work. I please ask you to send this letter on to the people who made this call, then, the situation can be handled appropriately.



Thanks,
(my name here)
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Postby Bhairav on Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:32 am

Thanks cfitz. Your letter is more specific than mine, which is a good thing :wink: . I have a tendency to ramble.... :oops:
Anyway, let us know if you can find good contact information for Lite-On. The email address I posted was pretty much the only relevant one I could find on their English-language website. Methinks we're going to need someone who can read Mandarin to find the email address we seek :o :)

Aviationwiz: Why bring Plextor into a Lite-On discussion?Let 'em be, just mention that you are no longer recommending Lite-On drives, but you ARE recommending other ones.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:13 am

If you want to send e-mail, I think you can send to the following addresses

Sendto : Michael_Gong@liteonit.com
cc : Kevin_Tsai@liteonit.com

that's where I'm sending my letter :wink:
Last edited by dolphinius_rex on Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:25 am

OMG! K-Probe 1.1.23 is available! I'm not even kidding!

http://myweb.hinet.net/home4/karr/kpsetup.exe
http://myweb.hinet.net/home4/karr/kprobe.zip

Karr, you're awsome!
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:26 am

is it OK to "copy" one of the above letters verbatim and use it?
i was thinking of using cfitz's letter (minus the personal stuff) as it expresses my opinion about the issue, and written in a manner i only wish i could have written myself...

or do you think such identical emails would be a bad idea?

cfitz, is it OK by you? if you mind, i won't of course.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:29 am

I would suggest making at least *some* changes, just so that LiteON doesn't think that it is one person sending the same e-mail from different accounts.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:36 am

obviously, i would identify myself: full name, email address.
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Postby CDHero on Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:04 am

:D
Last edited by CDHero on Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cfitz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:22 am

dodecahedron wrote:is it OK to "copy" one of the above letters verbatim and use it?
i was thinking of using cfitz's letter (minus the personal stuff) as it expresses my opinion about the issue, and written in a manner i only wish i could have written myself...

or do you think such identical emails would be a bad idea?

cfitz, is it OK by you? if you mind, i won't of course.

You are certainly welcome to use my letter, modified as appropriate. I do agree with dolphinius_rex that adding a personal touch is a good idea, as it shows that one cared enough to take the time to express his or her own feelings. (I was actually going to comment about how pleased I was to see so many people taking the time to write their own letters and post them here. Well done, CDRLabs gang! :) ) But, if one does not have the time to write a letter from scratch, using one of the letters posted here as a model is certainly acceptable as well.

By the way, I edited my letter after sleeping on it overnight (let me tell you, I have a sore back today - those computer cases are hard and have sharp corners :wink: ), and here is my final version:

Dear Mr. Gong,

I am writing in regard to the software tools KProbe, MInfo and LtnFlash that work with Lite-On optical drives. My understanding is that these tools were developed by one of your employees, Mr. Karr Wang, and that Mr. Wang has recently been instructed to stop developing these tools and making them available to Lite-On customers.

I would urge you to reconsider this decision. The tools that Mr. Wang has developed are highly valued in the CD and DVD burning enthusiasts' community. He has done an excellent job creating these tools, including many useful features for understanding and enjoying our Lite-On drives. These tools add a lot of value to the Lite-On product line and truly differentiate Lite-On from other brands. Because of this, they are a strong selling point.

I myself have purchased four Lite-On drives, and a large part of my decision to purchase Lite-On was based on the availability of useful tools like KProbe and LtnFlash. I also personally know many others who feel the same way. And I contribute frequently to Internet CD/DVD forums such as CDRLabs.com (under the pseudonym "cfitz"), where I often recommend Lite-On specifically because of the tools Mr. Wang developed.

KProbe has even been adopted as a component of the drive-testing suite used in reviewing optical drives at CDRLabs.com. See, for example, the three latest reviews, looking about two thirds of the way down the page:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.ph ... erformance
http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.ph ... erformance
http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.ph ... erformance

This says a lot about the respect for Mr. Karr's software. In addition, what company wouldn’t want to be associated with a prestigious optical drive review site like CDRLabs.com and have its drives and the custom software that works with them be used as a standard for judging the quality of optical drives?

I understand that Lite-On, as a business, has valid concerns about the release of some tools. But would it be possible to arrange a compromise that would allow Lite-On to protect its interests while at the same time allowing Mr. Wang to continue developing and distributing his tools? I think this would satisfy everyone, and benefit both Lite-On and Lite-On customers.

As for Mr. Wang himself, you should be proud to have such an employee. He has represented Lite-On well, creating products that its customers value and promoting Lite-On brand awareness and loyalty.

Regards,

...


cfitz

<edit>fixed minor typo in my letter :oops: but not until after I emailed it :x :( </edit>
Last edited by cfitz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cfitz on Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:25 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:OMG! K-Probe 1.1.23 is available! I'm not even kidding!

http://myweb.hinet.net/home4/karr/kpsetup.exe
http://myweb.hinet.net/home4/karr/kprobe.zip

Karr, you're awsome!

Thanks for the heads up, dolphinius_rex, both about this and the email addresses for supporting Karr.

And thanks to you Karr, for getting this (hopefully not last) version out.

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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:32 pm

1.1.23 has a big hairy bug in it.
Freezes program and requires a reboot to get free of it.
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Postby CDRecorder on Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:57 pm

When does the program freeze?

Edit: Never mind; I tried to scan a disc for C1 and C2 errors, and it hung when it said "pit/wob switch" at the bottom of the screen.
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Postby MediumRare on Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:19 pm

I was going to post that bug too- but you beat me to it. :o So, just for information, here are the release notes:
Release notes :

<1.1.23>

1.Added commands: ReadBuffer and WriteBuffer

2.Fixed problems : Track slipped while scanning ATER/ADER


G
(who is still working on his draft for an e-mail to LiteOn)
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