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Plextor 712 Question...

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue May 25, 2004 2:51 pm

VariRec does *not* improve writing quality, what it sometimes can do is improve disc compatability, but using this tool is much more likely to produce a lower quality burn then it is anything else. I don't think anyone really needs to use VariRec anymore though.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
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Postby Rich on Tue May 25, 2004 6:19 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:VariRec does *not* improve writing quality, what it sometimes can do is improve disc compatability, but using this tool is much more likely to produce a lower quality burn then it is anything else. I don't think anyone really needs to use VariRec anymore though.


Oh, ok. I'll do some reading on it soon. I guess for now atleast I can't anyway.

Thanks!

As soon as I wake up I'm going down to Office Depot and get me some of those Maxell +R's.

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed May 26, 2004 12:19 am

ooops...my bad.
when i had wrote PoweRec, i had meant VariRec!

of course PoweRec is supported, it's the drive's media quality testing/power calibrating feature.
VariRec is the special thing that allows the user to tweak the power setting. this is what i had thought you meant in your original post.

and yes, this feature is available in PlexTools and Nero too. don't know about Roxio's software, but i suspect that too supports this feature.
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Postby Rich on Wed May 26, 2004 12:26 am

[quote="dodecahedron"]ooops...my bad.

Re the 'Rings'

I just traded in K-19 Widowmaker and got the Return of the King for 12.99!

And :: I haven't seen it yet!!!

;-)

I got pringles, and goodbars, and diet pepsi and I'm gonna watch it tonight at work!

later Rich
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Maxell blanks

Postby Rich on Wed May 26, 2004 10:32 am

Well I don't know how those TDK 4X DVD+R's would have burned since I took them back, but these Maxell's from Office Depot only do 4x.
(on the PX-12a with new firmware {1.01})
::sigh::
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Postby govern1 on Wed May 26, 2004 2:15 pm

The TDK +R 4X blanks record at 8X. I'm using up the last the one's I have left now.

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Postby vsekh on Wed May 26, 2004 3:30 pm

govern1 wrote:The TDK +R 4X blanks record at 8X. I'm using up the last the one's I have left now.

Shawn


You're most likely using Ricoh Japan TDK 4x +R media. TDK also sells 4x +R media made by CMC Magnetics, which will not burn at 8x speed.
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Postby Rich on Wed May 26, 2004 3:42 pm

Both the TDK I had and Maxell I have are made in Taiwan.

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Postby govern1 on Wed May 26, 2004 6:38 pm

The TDK 4X's I used are also from Taiwan, not Japan. I do believe they are Ricoh's, though (I'm not at home to look, but I think the code is ricohjpn01 or something like that).

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Speed test on the Maxell's

Postby Rich on Wed May 26, 2004 9:22 pm

I just did a test with my watch's stop watch. It looks like 4x but I don't know the exact x-factor to divide the final output with. Here is what I did.

With the Maxell blank; 4x on sale at office depot this week, barcode# 0-25215-62436-0 Up to 4x, 4.7 gb CD+R.

The project was over 30 files totaling 4475.5 MB according to Roxio which with an all-selection on the DVD afterward shows these properties for the files: 4.36 GB (4,690,991,600 bytes) in 38 files, 34 folders.

The stopwatch time was from clicking the button to the bell by roxio when finished. I missed it at the beginning if it had a lead in but at the end there was no lead out message though for a very short time the slide bar did do a last task such as a lead out; it was very quick so I'm sure 99.9 % of this time was burning.

The time was 14:15:33 or say 14:16 or 856 seconds.

I divided the Roxio number 4475.5 MB and got 5,228,388 bytes / sec.

I divide the size on disk 4,690,991,600 and get 5,480,130 bytes / sec.

So, what is the x-factor? I've seen 1200 up to 1385 (megs) (million?)

Anyway. Atleast I can say it didn't hiccup even if I can't say how cool plextools pro is or how fast it is, or anything like that. I guess I'm a bit disappointed til I can get the plex tools working.

I'm very curious about the difference in the two versions of the drive and how the software connects Plextools to it.

Is it the Plextools.exe which is smarter and looks at the usb bus as well as the ide bus? I think not because plextools is downloadable and doesn't seem to fix it. Actually it came with 2.12 and only 2.11 is downloadable.

Or, is it a driver installed during installation which makes some dynamic link from the drive on a usb/firewire bus and makes it show up on the ide bus so that Plextools sees it.

Anyway if anyone else is having problems with plextor in connecting a desktop plextor drive into a 3rd party USB drive enclosure (USB 2.0) resulting in the Plextools Professional not working, this would be a great place to post a solution.

Plextor told me I could buy the disk from the U/F version for 20 bucks but they also asked me if I knew the chip in the enclosure. I could pay 20 bucks for a disk that has only support for a proprietary Plextor enclosure which would not make my day.

Hopefully a downloadable fix will come along and I won't have to gamble 20 bucks.

later, Rich
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Postby DVD_ADDICT on Thu May 27, 2004 1:55 am

You can check the Plextor forum at cdfreaks.com for info regarding enclosures and check www.videohelp.com too. They have threads there that I've read about how USB enclosures are not compatible with some brands of dvd burners but using FIREWIRE ENCLOSURES they have less compatiblity issues.
Instead of investing $20 for a disk from Plextor. I would seriously look into getting a firewire enclosure. I don't think Plextor would have a download for the problem you're having. I can't remember what chipset it is that works well with burners and the firewire enclosures. But you'll be better off getting a firewire enclosure. Although the speeds of USB are faster, FIREWIRE is best used for video stuff and is much more compatible than USB. Good Luck using the 712. I'll be waiting for Plextor to come out at the end of the year with hopefully a 16x or dual layer burner. :)
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Postby shimman on Thu May 27, 2004 2:49 am

rich, have you installed aspi in your system? i am not an expert but it seems like windows xp/2k recognize non ide drives as scsi & when it happens software like nero uese aspi commends to communicate with the drives connected as scsi devices. nero uses its own aspi driver so it does not need one (win xp/2k do no have aspi installed by default)

708a software disk had aspi driver from adaptec

good luck

btw, whether plextor u/f version is proprietary or not, the plextor tools should be working with both yours & u/f version enclosure unless that plextor enclosure requires proprietary usb/ieee1394a drivers (i doubt that that will be the case). both interfaces are open standards so windows generic driver is more than enough to make enclosures works without propreitary drivers

my guess for not showing the driver under plextor tools is because it uses aspi commend for external drives (and i think that's probably the only way for software to control the external drivers)

i am telling you plextor support is not any better than other companies; most of time useless (708a made me a bitter man of the month :p )

712a is interesting especially the sanyo chip is supporting 8x +/- rw as well as 52x (or is it 54x) cdr writing 32x cdrw writing. i bet plextor will not support any upgrade using firmware. plextor sucks! (again.... :p )

speaking of usb.....usb2's raw transfer bit rate is faster than ieee1394a, but when data have to be synced there are simply too much protocol wastes that real data transfer rate of usb2 is smaller than ieee1394a

not only ieee1394a is faster in sync mode, ms messed up the driver part that unnecessaryinterrupts are made & this makes higher cpu utilization.
unfortunately this is not just a driver issue; many chips' dma design is not that efficient making the situation worse; better stick with chipset's usb2 ports.

strange thing is that usb2 high cpu utilization problem is happening to everyone, and i don't know exactly the cause of it.
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Postby Rich on Thu May 27, 2004 8:10 am

shimman wrote:rich, have you installed aspi in your system? i am not an expert but it seems like windows xp/2k recognize non ide drives as scsi & when it happens software like nero uese aspi commends to communicate with the drives connected as scsi devices. nero uses its own aspi driver so it does not need one (win xp/2k do no have aspi installed by default)

btw, whether plextor u/f version is proprietary or not, the plextor tools should be working with both yours & u/f version enclosure unless that plextor enclosure requires proprietary usb/ieee1394a drivers (i doubt that that will be the case). both interfaces are open standards so windows generic driver is more than enough to make enclosures works without propreitary drivers

my guess for not showing the driver under plextor tools is because it uses aspi commend for external drives (and i think that's probably the only way for software to control the external drivers)

i am telling you plextor support is not any better than other companies; most of time useless (708a made me a bitter man of the month :p )

712a is interesting especially the sanyo chip is supporting 8x +/- rw as well as 52x (or is it 54x) cdr writing 32x cdrw writing. i bet plextor will not support any upgrade using firmware. plextor sucks! (again.... :p )

speaking of usb.....usb2's raw transfer bit rate is faster than ieee1394a, but when data have to be synced there are simply too much protocol wastes that real data transfer rate of usb2 is smaller than ieee1394a

not only ieee1394a is faster in sync mode, ms messed up the driver part that unnecessaryinterrupts are made & this makes higher cpu utilization.
unfortunately this is not just a driver issue; many chips' dma design is not that efficient making the situation worse; better stick with chipset's usb2 ports.

strange thing is that usb2 high cpu utilization problem is happening to everyone, and i don't know exactly the cause of it.




My aspi is ok. I found a link to adaptec on the plextor site that has a tester and installer. Mine was ok according to the adaptec test.



I downloaded the Nero 6 demo and did a test burn at 8x and it told me the my system had like 19-20 megs / sec through put. Then I burned and it only did 4x.

I'll keep trying to get Plextools going though.

thanks for the thoughts
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Postby Rich on Thu May 27, 2004 8:19 am

DVD_ADDICT wrote:You can check the Plextor forum at cdfreaks.com for info regarding enclosures and check www.videohelp.com too. They have threads there that I've read about how USB enclosures are not compatible with some brands of dvd burners but using FIREWIRE ENCLOSURES they have less compatiblity issues.
Instead of investing $20 for a disk from Plextor. I would seriously look into getting a firewire enclosure. I don't think Plextor would have a download for the problem you're having. I can't remember what chipset it is that works well with burners and the firewire enclosures. But you'll be better off getting a firewire enclosure. Although the speeds of USB are faster, FIREWIRE is best used for video stuff and is much more compatible than USB. Good Luck using the 712. I'll be waiting for Plextor to come out at the end of the year with hopefully a 16x or dual layer burner. :)


Isn't it funny that I can use my Memorex (liteon rebagaged) 52x24x52 full speed with Nero and do a 700 meg burn in under 3 minutes, .and. , burn a 4.7 gig data set with Nero in 13 minutes, .and. , Install the Plex & Roxio software from the 712a; all this through that USB 2.0 port with no problems and you keep seeing a problem with USB.

The only problem I have is that unlike Roxio, Nero, and Windows explorer, --- PlexTools Professional won't even look at it.

this is not a performance issue. It is not a compatibility issue with Windows since Nero, Roxio, and Windows Explorer all use the drive freely.

The only problem is Plextools.

If plextools can't see USB when everything else can, I can't imagine it would see firewire and I'm not going to buy another enclosure and a PC-Mcia cardbus adapter just to try something I don't think would work.

What I'm after is what the Plextor U/F installation cd has that mine doesn't.

In anycase I'm gonna be pretty happy with the drive. It burns nice and trouble free.

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Postby Rich on Thu May 27, 2004 11:05 pm

DVD_ADDICT wrote:You can check the Plextor forum at cdfreaks.com for info regarding enclosures and check www.videohelp.com too. They have threads there that I've read about how USB enclosures are not compatible with some brands of dvd burners but using FIREWIRE ENCLOSURES they have less compatiblity issues.
Instead of investing $20 for a disk from Plextor. I would seriously look into getting a firewire enclosure. I don't think Plextor would have a download for the problem you're having. I can't remember what chipset it is that works well with burners and the firewire enclosures. But you'll be better off getting a firewire enclosure. Although the speeds of USB are faster, FIREWIRE is best used for video stuff and is much more compatible than USB. Good Luck using the 712. I'll be waiting for Plextor to come out at the end of the year with hopefully a 16x or dual layer burner. :)


Hi, well when I'm wrong I say I'm wrong. And I just may be wrong here. I just ran a Nero speed test and I may be only transfering like 5 megs a sec. Also I just saw in the Plextools History that back in version 2.03 they added support for firewire.

Well I may be getting into a Fire/Usb 2 drive enclosure and trying it out.

I'm sorry for not believing you but I thought them to be two apples of different colors.

I will Email or call Plextor tomorrow to see if they will be adding USB 2 to Plextools.

If I get a Firewire enclosure it'll probably be sunday. I'll let you know.

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Postby DVD_ADDICT on Thu May 27, 2004 11:39 pm

I'm sorry for not believing you but I thought them to be two apples of different colors.


Naw don't worry about that, nothing to be sorry about. I only offered my opinion to you because I've read on different forum sites on how people have problems using USB enclosures and have compatibility issues with it. In fact I've seen people recommend a USB/FIREWIRE ENCLOSURE in case one doesn't work you have the other one to use. I was at COMPUSA the other day and they had a clearance on one brand of USB/FIREWIRE ENCLOSURE $79.99. I can't remember the brand name of it. Good luck and let us know the results. :)
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Postby Rich on Fri May 28, 2004 11:55 pm

Well it's 6:00 pm Friday and off I go to compusa.

Firewire here I go. Shoot, $140 bucks.

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Postby DVD_ADDICT on Sat May 29, 2004 2:32 am

Well it's 6:00 pm Friday and off I go to compusa.


LoL! I was at compusa at 5:30 p.m. for their moonlight sale 6PM -10PM. I walked out of there at 6:25 p.m. with a cheap KLH DVD PLAYER for my friend. Were you able to find parking? The damn parking lot was mobbed with cars. Let us know about the firewire enclosure. :D
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Postby Rich on Sat May 29, 2004 2:42 am

DVD_ADDICT wrote:
Well it's 6:00 pm Friday and off I go to compusa.


LoL! I was at compusa at 5:30 p.m. for their moonlight sale 6PM -10PM. I walked out of there at 6:25 p.m. with a cheap KLH DVD PLAYER for my friend. Were you able to find parking? The damn parking lot was mobbed with cars. Let us know about the firewire enclosure. :D


I came in on the other side from South St and found a spot right away but the truck died and was dead on the spot. Luckly I was parked. After I came out I twisted the cable and it started so I was off the hook. I had to get a girl to get one down with a ladder and boy this thing looks excellent compared to the ADS I was used to. Power supply is inside and LIGHT! Just an Ibm plug cable to the wall like any Ibm pc or monitor.

Well I'm at it right now. I bought the last 3 8x dvds at office depot on the way. $9.97 for 3, but then I can test it right.

well here goes, I'm installing it now.

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Postby Rich on Sat May 29, 2004 4:45 am

Well it fixed it.

I think there is still a bit of a bottle neck, but what I have now I'm fully happy with. The first thing was the Plextools recognized the drive and that was paramont.

Next Nero created a data disk (4x blank) in 8:09 and averaged 7.46x. That's almost 8x on a 4x blank.

Next Nero showed the transfer rate at 5-10x with 8.49x average in 6:54.

Next I burned a dataset onto a 4x blank and an 8x blank. Interestingly the 4x blank finished faster, at nearly 8x. It took 7:52 and the 8x blank took 8:10. Very interesting.

Anyway with a 10x bottle neck for reading I believe that may also be the top end when I finally get 12x media to play with. But, I'm grossly happy now with 7.5x on 4x blanks. I can live with that for a year atleast.

Thanks for the push to Firewire. I'll be doing some more fiddling with it, including trying the new enclosure's USB.

Interestingly there was no installation with the software at all. I plugged it in and found the stuf in the device manager the manual showed for after installation. I then re-installed plextools and there was the drive.

Well, now it's time for bed!

Thanks again DVD-Addict!!

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Postby dodecahedron on Sat May 29, 2004 5:04 am

which enclosure did you buy (brand/model)?
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Postby Rich on Sat May 29, 2004 11:08 am

dodecahedron wrote:which enclosure did you buy (brand/model)?


It is a Micro Plus model MP-320U2F Firewire / USB 2 combo. Compusa's sku # 309693 for $79.99.

Except for the steel case that the ADS has to mount your drive into the Micro Plus is a much better enclosure. The Micro Plus has a very attractive aluminum colored plastic case with a steel liner and a clear plastic outer skin. The Micro Plus instead of the ADS's transformer in the cord has it in the case and uses the traditional cord like an IBM PC's cord to connect to power. And best of all is the weight of the transformer is gone, even with the power supply in the case; empty it is light as a feather. The Micro Plus has a larger fan, a light that is perminately mounted on the front of the case, much higher quality data connectors the back (outside), a connector inside to go to the digital out of the drive, and a phone plug on the back for audio!

Although it came with a cd for installing it's software my windows xp recoginzed it automatically; as it did with the USB2/Fire combo cardbus adapter.

---

The cardbus adapter I got was the compusa one sku 306140 for $59.99.
It has 2 usb 2 connections and 2 firewire. The firewire are each different. One is large like a usb connection and the other is tiny. It comes with a cd and a cable which has a normal firewire on one end and that tiny one on the other to plug into the tiny connection in the cardbus adapter. It has a CD for its driver software; (win xp recoginzed it automatically) This is a nicely versatle card. It even comes with another cd that has Ulead video editing software.

Well I had to spend $145 with tax but shoot atleast I got nice stuff.

I hope this helps someone else out.

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Postby DVD_ADDICT on Sun May 30, 2004 6:00 am

:) Good to hear you got it working with the FIREWIRE! I'll be going to the Memorial Day Sale at COMPUSA. They have a BUSLINK 8X DVD burner for $79.00 after rebates. I'm wondering if it's a LITEON 812 DVD burner. [-o< 8-[
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Postby Rich on Sun May 30, 2004 10:37 am

DVD_ADDICT wrote::) Good to hear you got it working with the FIREWIRE! I'll be going to the Memorial Day Sale at COMPUSA. They have a BUSLINK 8X DVD burner for $79.00 after rebates. I'm wondering if it's a LITEON 812 DVD burner. [-o< 8-[


I haven't seen the ad. Maybe it'll come in the Sunday Paper.
But I've spent enough for a while.
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Postby DVD_ADDICT on Mon May 31, 2004 1:41 pm

I bought the BUSLINK burner from COMPUSA and it's a LITEON 811S. Bummer it wasn't a 812. :cry:
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