Sony DVD-R's has two different codes

[grouch]

hi all,
I recently bought Sony 50 pack DVD-R from Walmart in toronto for @25 CDN. Using my LG 4082, thru CD Speed and Alcohol, the media type was SONY08D1.
During my new burner buying process, I read that the NEC 3520 could burn these at 16x, and other media that I use at faster speeds as well...so i went out and happily bought one.
Now the NEC came with firmware 1.04, thru Alcohol and CD Speed, the media code became DAXON016S.
After upgrading to some L&D's firmware 1.UE, the media code is still Daxon.
Is it something with NEC drives reading Sony discs as Daxon or did i buy fakes?? and fakes with 2 media codes??

[dolphinius_rex]

Sorry, I'm a little confused.... are you saying that *1* disc reports two different MID codes, depending on what drive is reading it?

Have you confirmed this with the SAME disc, or just 2 different discs from the same spindle?

[grouch]

Disc written using LG 4082: NEC = DAXON016S
LG = SONY08D1

Disc written using NEC 3520: NEC = DAXON016S
LG = DAXON016S

These are the DVD-R's, so no bitsetting was used, nor was bitsetting option ever enabled on my NEC.

Blank disc: NEC = DAXON016S. LG = SONY08D1

I've opened 2 more spindles and testing 3 from each, all with the same results.

Vendor Identification: _NEC
Product Identification: DVD_RW ND-3520AW
Production Revision Level: 1.UE
Location: atapi, Port 1, Bus 0, Target 0, Lun 0

Vendor Identification: HL-DT-ST
Product Identification: DVDRAM GSA-4082B
Production Revision Level: A208
Location: atapi, Port 1, Bus 0, Target 1, Lun 0

[grouch]

Using DVDinfopro, on NEC Drive with blank disc.

Complete Media Code
00000000 00 AA 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 85 0E 10 .....@....R.....
00000010 87 88 80 00 03 44 41 58 4F 4E 30 00 04 31 36 53 .....DAXON0..16S
00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 09 0C 12 ................

On LG drive with blank disc.
Complete Media Code
00000000 00 6A 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 85 0E 10 .j...@....R.....
00000010 87 88 80 00 03 53 4F 4E 59 30 38 00 04 44 31 00 .....SONY08..D1.
00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 09 0C 12 ................

Would i be able to flash my firmware back to 1.04 to see if the media codes would change?? cause I only tried reading the media code for 1 blank disc before i flashed the firmware

[jsl]

A similar thing has been reported with some of TDK's 8x DVD-R discs, some drives like the NECs show a TTH01 code while other drives show a TTG02 code. I'm not really sure why though...

[dolphinius_rex]

I'm utterly baffled. Both codes are made by the same manufacturer (with the Sony discs) but they are completely different. I don't even see how it could be physically possible for this to happen!

[Halc]

Sorry to be an ass, but I need to repeat rex's question, just to make sure my thick skull gets this:

When trying one and only one disc specimen, that same one disc reports two different Media Codes in DVD Identifier (and various other applications) when that same disc is inserted in two different burners?

Note, I'm talking about one and the same disc individual, NOT one disc "type" with several specimens. Like in one physical disc only :)

Could you please verify that I have understood this correctly?

[RJW]

A similar thing has been reported with some of TDK's 8x DVD-R discs, some drives like the NECs show a TTH01 code while other drives show a TTG02 code. I'm not really sure why though...

That ones a little different if you know how things work.
Still the thing that described that behaviour doesn't account for this one.
Looks like I have to mail some folks about how this is possible.
Still if this is possible it would explain something else I have noticed.

[jsl]

That ones a little different if you know how things work.
Still the thing that described that behaviour doesn't account for this one.
Looks like I have to mail some folks about how this is possible.
Still if this is possible it would explain something else I have noticed.

Different in what way? Care to explain?

[grouch]

To confirm...
these are the same physical discs, read from an NEC 3520 and LG GSA-4082.
I've tried 6 blank discs total, 2 each from 3 different spindles bought from Wal-Mart. Brand new, haven't been put into other drives.
I get the media code while its in the NEC and then I put it into the LG and get the media code. Nothing done to the discs in between except my fingers holding them.

confuses me too, unless something my computer is messed up.

[grouch]

Here's a burnt dvd...using DVD Info Pro to get the media info.
------------------
In NEC drive,
Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Media code/Manufacturer ID DAXON016S
Format Type UDF 1.02
Volume Name SPANGLISH
Application id Derrow UDF/ISO Applicat
Implementation id Derrow UDF/ISO Library
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 3/21/2005 16:25:35
Format Capacity 4.34GB(4.66GB)
Book Type DVD-R
Media Type DVD-R
Manufacturer Rated Speed Unknown
Available Write Descriptor CLV 12.0x 16620KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 6.0x 8310KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.0x 2770KBps
Write Strategy Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
2x Speed OPC beta 09
2x Speed OPC power 0C
2x Write Strategy field 1 12 A8 88 90
2x Write Strategy field 2 88 80 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta 06
4x Speed OPC power 16
4x Write Strategy field 1 0A 0E 09 04
4x Write Strategy field 2 98 06 0C 0B
4x Write Strategy field 3 80 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse 08
4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse 16
4x Write Strategy field 4 18 97 88 75
4x Write Strategy field 5 B7 9B B8 83 00 30
4x Write Strategy field 6 0F FF D0 00 00
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 22BBFEh
Linear Density 0.267um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 1

Complete Media Code
00000000 00 AA 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 85 0E 10 .....@....R.....
00000010 87 88 80 00 03 44 41 58 4F 4E 30 00 04 31 36 53 .....DAXON0..16S
00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 09 0C 12 ................
---------------------------
In LG drive,
Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Media code/Manufacturer ID SONY08D1
Format Type UDF 1.02
Volume Name SPANGLISH
Application id Derrow UDF/ISO Applicat
Implementation id Derrow UDF/ISO Library
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 3/21/2005 16:25:35
Format Capacity 4.34GB(4.66GB)
Book Type DVD-R
Media Type DVD-R
Manufacturer Rated Speed Unknown
Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
Write Strategy Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
2x Speed OPC beta 09
2x Speed OPC power 0C
2x Write Strategy field 1 12 A8 88 90
2x Write Strategy field 2 88 80 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta 06
4x Speed OPC power 16
4x Write Strategy field 1 0A 0E 09 04
4x Write Strategy field 2 98 06 0C 0B
4x Write Strategy field 3 80 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse 08
4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse 16
4x Write Strategy field 4 18 97 88 75
4x Write Strategy field 5 B7 9B B8 83 00 30
4x Write Strategy field 6 0F FF D0 00 00
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 22BBFEh
Linear Density 0.267um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 1

Complete Media Code
00000000 00 6A 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 85 0E 10 .j...@....R.....
00000010 87 88 80 00 03 53 4F 4E 59 30 38 00 04 44 31 00 .....SONY08..D1.
00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 09 0C 12 ................
---------------------------

Would the firmware in the NEC cause it to recognize media codes differently??

[Halc]

I see only two possibilities:

1) there are two media codes in different spots and the different drives read them from different spots. This is just a guess, I have no knowledge of whether it's even possible.

2) The drive just isn't reporting what it is reading, but substituting it with some data form it's internal look up table. This is at least theoretically possible, although it begs the question why?

This is a very interesting issue.

I'd really like to hear more about this, if anybody finds out more information on this.

[RJW]

Let me say this I will have a talk with some folks like I promised however my agenda is allready to full these days. So this probally can take up to some months.
2 Bad reporting is possible and was proven with a firmware flash gone wrong on some drive. The drive was giveing back wrong data.

1 Is a very good question ? If that one is possible it would give a little bit better option on the +/-R dual format disc's to make it real.
However then they still would have to fix the wobble issue.

All I can say is that this topic is really getting interesting.