Yamaha Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW disc results

[tlotz]

I got my 3-pack of Yamaha Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs today. The Yamaha 24X CD-RW discs, as expected, work quite well with my LiteOn drive. This is because the Yamaha discs are also made by Mitsubishi Chemical like the Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs. They even have the same ATIP code as the Verbatim discs. As many people who have read my previous two threads on Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW media quality know, I was unhappy with the performance of the Verbatim discs due to unusually high C1 error rates. So today I tested two of the new Yamaha 24X CD-RW discs and compared them to one of my Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs. The results I found were interesting. Right now, I only have 3 of these Yamaha 24X CD-RW discs, compared to 25 Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs. I thought that maybe there was some problem with Verbatim discs made in Taiwan. The funny thing is that the Yamaha discs I got were also made in Taiwan. At first, I wasn't too happy about that--even if the Verbatim's and Yamaha's were made in the same factory, they are different discs and therefore their quality can certainly vary. The Yamaha discs have a few *minor* advantages over the Verbatims:

1) The label surface of the Yamaha discs have a cool more interesting design than that of the Verbatim discs. The label surface design is obviously trivial and a matter of preference!

2) The label surface of the Yamaha discs is made like that of some CD-Rs where it prevents fingerprints and scratches. Yamaha calls it a "Scratch resistant disc surface." The Verbatim CD-RW discs don't have a scratch resistance or fingerprint resistance surface. Yamaha's scratch resistant disc surface gives me the impression of better quality compared to the Verbatim discs since over time my RW discs have gotten fingerprints on the label side. But the Yamaha discs won't have this problem.

3) The Yamaha discs come in a real box, not with shrink wrap covering the jewel cases (which is how the Verbatim discs come). This is convenient--I don't have to supply my own box like I do with the Verbatim discs. Also, the Yamaha discs come in sturdy full size (thick) jewel cases, instead of the slim jewel cases that the Verbatim's come in. Those slim jewel cases actually allow the read/write side of the disc to be exposed to light. Some people like the slim cases, however I am not one of those people.

Now, for the results of the Yamaha vs. Verbatim test I did. Because I full erased all of my Verbatim discs prior to writing to them, I do not have a virgin disc (I'll call this cycle 0) test for the Verbatim discs. My Cycle 0 virgin disc test was with one Yamaha 24X CD-RW disc. My Cycle 1-3 tests were with a Yamaha and a Verbatim disc that were written to in the same way with the same TDK 5200B drive using the same firmware. Of course, Cycle 1 means the first write after one full erase, and so on. I used CD Doctor 1.0.4 for the tests. Here are my results (sorry, I can't post graphs):

Cycle 0: 650 MB Yamaha 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 27 Ave: 5.726
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

I was quite happy with the virgin disc result--this result is very much like MediumRare's virgin disc result with his Verbatim discs. The difference in our results here I feel can certainly be explained by my drive's less than optimal firmware--I don't want to switch to LiteOn firmware at this time and I have the latest TDK firmware. Here are the rest of the results:

Cycle 1: 650 MB Yamaha 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 178 Ave: 24.424
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

Cycle 1: 650 MB Verbatim 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 183 Ave: 28.747
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

Cycle 2: 650 MB Yamaha 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 175 Ave: 28.202
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

Cycle 2: 650 MB Verbatim 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 226 Ave: 35.668
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

Cycle 3: 650 MB Yamaha 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 147 Ave: 23.593
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

Cycle 3: 650 MB Verbatim 24X CD-RW Burned@24X
C1 Min: 0 Max: 238 Ave: 32.386
C2 Min: 0 Max: 0 Ave: 0.000

Here's my analysis: in Cycle 1, there was no significant difference between the Yamaha and Verbatim discs. Again, I am certain that better TDK or LiteOn firmware (if I change my mind and switch to the LiteOn firmware) will result in much better results. Hence, these results are nothing to be concerned about. In Cycle 2, the Yamaha disc has a result just like its performance in Cycle 1, while the Verbatim disc's C1 error rate goes up. So the Yamaha disc so far has slightly better burn quality. In Cycle 3, the Yamaha disc's C1 error rate goes down by a small but significant amout while the Verbatim disc's C1 error rate remains about the same as in Cycle 2. So looking at all 3 cycles, the Yamaha disc has slightly better burn quality. If I had the time and willingness to put the extra ware on my Yamaha media and my drive, I would put one of the Yamaha discs through at least a dozen cycles. But, with the testing I have done, the Yamaha's C1 error rate at Cycle 3 was lower than that of the same disc at Cycle 1. I have never seen that behavior in my Verbatim discs. Furthermore, I have gotten surprisingly high C1 error rates on some of my 25 Verbatim discs. One of those discs got a C1 rate of Max = 600 with an average of about 57 in Cycle 1! That's right, Cycle 1! Other Verbatim discs have no trouble getting C1 error rates that have a max number in the 300s or 400s.

It is my opinion, from the testing that I've done so far, that the Yamaha discs are better quality. My above test was only able to show slightly better results for the Yamaha disc, but the unusually high error C1 error rates I have seen on many of the Verbatim discs, especially the one that gave me a 600 max C1 error rate (in Cycle 1!) lead me to believe that the Verbatim discs have questionable inconsistent quality. Maybe the Yamaha disc's C1 error rate would go sky high after a dozen cycles, but I don't see evidance of that being likely, and I don't have the time and willingness to put the Yamaha discs through all those extra burn cycles. In short, the Yamaha discs (so far) have better results, and I am happy about that.

So, if the Yamaha's are better quality, as I think they are, are they worth the extra money? Their burn quality appears to be better, and some people might prefer the scratch proof label, cool appearance, and thick jewel cases. Most people I think want the most bang for their buck--that is, they want the best they can get, without spending too much. For those people, the Verbatim discs are clearly a better choice because Yamaha charges way too much for their discs. For those that have a Fry's nearby, the Yamaha's can be bought for 3 for $10 ($3.33 per disc). Since I (like most people) don't have a Fry's nearby, the best deal is 3 for $12.99 (free shipping included). That's $4.33 a disc! The Verbatim discs can be bought for as low as $1.20 a disc online. Because of the huge difference between $1.20 and $4.33 per disc, I admit that anyone who is concerned with the price difference should go with the Verbatim discs. However, for those people, who want the absolute best Ultra Speed CD-RW media and are willing to pay the premium, then Yamaha is the best choice, in my opinion.

[tlotz]

I was looking over one of my Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs and noticed that I made a minor mistake in the comparison between the Yamaha discs and the Verbatim discs. The minor advantage #2 of the Yamaha discs over the Verbatim discs is inaccurate--I was trying to complete a long post in a hurry and screwed up. When I wrote that, I was thinking of another Verbatim disc. The Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW discs do have a "Scratch Resistant Surface" as advertised by the paper sleeve that comes with each Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW disc. I tested one of the Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW discs and verified that it is scratch resistant. Yamaha's scratch resistant surface (as tested by me) is better for preventing fingerprints and therefore is preferred by me. I will post more CD Doctor C1 error results of the Yamaha discs as I use the discs normally for my data and music. My conclusion concerning the Yamaha vs Verbatim issue is still the same: Verbatim discs are still the way to go for most people, except those who demand the very best and are willing to pay a premium to get it. My feeling is that anyone who is willing to pay this premium will be very happy with the Yamaha discs.