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Should Plextor 712A Still be Avoided?

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Should Plextor 712A Still be Avoided?

Postby noycan on Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:56 am

This is an old topic, but prices have come down, and I thought that might change things. The Plextor 712 retail package can now be purchased from Dell for $78 (after a $30 rebate) plus tax with free shipping. This is cheaper than either the OEM NEC 3500 or Pioneer 108. The reviews of this drive from Ian and others have been great, but many users have reported nothing but problems. Has it been decided if this is a firmware problem that is correctable or a hardware/electronic problem that really can't be fixed or simply a drive that's very picky with media. BTW, the lack of dual layer support is not an issue for me and the 12x DVD+R and 8x DVD-R speeds would be fine.

Sorry again for bringing up an old topic--I did do a search but recent postings on this drive are pretty scarce. Perhaps everyone has written of Plextor as a lost cause. I did look at the postings on the Plextor cdfreaks forum.
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Postby Vanderlow on Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:21 am

this may help. it's a writing quality thread of the 712A.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/tm.asp?m=6 ... age=1&key=
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Postby shimman on Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:57 am

i would not buy 712a if i were you

unless you are going to use rather expensive/hard to find ty media exclusively(single layer only), 712a might be a good choice for you or you just want to use it for ripping/checking writing quality, it is probably a good choice

keep in mind that 712a would not be a good choice for casual users who would like use whatever media they can find...plextor is working on fix but i doubt that plextor would fix the problem since 712a is out of date

for about 90usd without rebate, you could get 3500 or 108 hack you can also get 1620/1600 or can save few bucks with dual layer 8x burners
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:26 am

I agree... avoid the POS-712a at all costs. It is the least forgiving burner I've used, with the exception of the LDW-411s... but common, we all knew the LDW-411s was going to be crap! :wink:

With the PX-712a, you have the whole:

Hype&cost vs. picky&obsolete ratio, which is getting bigger and more agravating all the time.

If Plextor manages to fix these problems, then maybe some of my faith will be restored in them.

Mind you, despite that fact that the PX-712a is a picky burner, lousy reader, and overall overpriced piece of crap, I do love it for my own uses... Why? because it's a picky burner, and lousy reader :wink: for doing media benchmarks, it's important to have something picky for testing. My general view is: if it works on the PX-712a, then it'll work on anything! (although I don't actually base opinions on this theory, it just seems to be true in many cases :lol: )
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Postby vsekh on Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:45 am

Since I found TY 8x dvd+r media, my PX-712a has worked great for me. I don't mind paying $100 for a 100pack of TY 8x dvd+r media.

A complete dvd+r burn takes me only 6:15 compared to 8:10 with the Plextor PX-708a. Almost 2 minutes less than the PX-708a.

If you don't mind buying and using TY 8x dvd+r media, then I would recommend buying this drive.
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Postby pchilson on Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:53 pm

You can all say what you will. Everyone has an opinion. :wink:
I have nothing but high praise for my Plextor PX-712A.
Great reader.
Great ripper.
Great burner.

I don't use crap media but I also don't overpay for media either.
You want to use garbage you get garbage.

I can burn 12x in 6:15 on ProdiscR03.
I don't think the Pioneer can get below 7:00.
The Nec can burn in 6:00 but just try to find media that's supported for that.

Choose what works for you.
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Postby Ian on Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:02 pm

I like mine too. Then again, I don't expect stellar results from crap media.
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Postby MadBurner on Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:08 pm

I like both of mine as well!

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Postby Shredder on Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:56 pm

If you use quality media such as TY, then any burner is good, but if you are planning to use some cheap media on sale then use Nec 3500, Pioneer 108 or Benq 16x0. Also Plextor 712A's 12X speed/quality burn will only be realized with quality media so you might as well get Nec 3500, Pioneer 108 or Benq 16x0 for 16X CAV, DL and overall good quality burning on cheap media usually on sale in local retail store.

BTW, according to a rumor from someone I consider reliable, Plextor may retract from Northern American market due to low demand for their products. I was told that his company will not restock Plextor optical drives anymore and send what's left over to another company. Perhaps this is a reason for rebate on Plextor 712A?
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Postby MadBurner on Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:02 pm

Shredder wrote: Perhaps this is a reason for rebate on Plextor 712A?


I was actually thinking it was because of an upcoming drive #-o

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Postby pchilson on Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:12 pm

Shredder wrote:BTW, according to a rumor from someone I consider reliable, Plextor may retract from Northern American market due to low demand for their products.

Can hardly wonder why...If your're going to charge 2 to 3x as much you better deliver 2 to 3x as much...
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Postby Ian on Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:32 pm

MadBurner wrote:
Shredder wrote: Perhaps this is a reason for rebate on Plextor 712A?


I was actually thinking it was because of an upcoming drive #-o


Maybe.. but we would have heard about it. More likely, its to make the drive more attractive to people that would otherwise buy a 16x DVD writer.
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Postby shimman on Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:17 pm

i totally agree with d._rex

keep in mind there are many issues with 712a & unless those issues like crap results with crap media like tdk, fuji, and mcc & poor reading compatability with less than perfect dvdr disks do not bother you, don't waste your money on plextor. there are simply better choices out there

speaking of ty media, they not only expensive but difficult find since many dvdr distributors change sources

if you are still interested, i recommend to wait for few days to see the promised 712a fix firmware & how this fixes the issues
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:55 pm

yes! This new firmware should be coming out any day now... so we should soon see if Plextor will truly stand behind their name, or if they plan to run away with their tail firmly tucked between both legs. I could honestly see this go either way, so I'm looking forward to seeing what happens! :D
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Postby Rich on Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:36 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:yes! This new firmware should be coming out any day now... so we should soon see if Plextor will truly stand behind their name, or if they plan to run away with their tail firmly tucked between both legs. I could honestly see this go either way, so I'm looking forward to seeing what happens! :D


Hi, where can I read about this upcoming firmware?


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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:46 pm

there have been long detailed threads in both www.cdrinfo.com and www.cdfreaks.com. most of the info was posted by cvs who has been corrasponding with Plextor on the matter, and reporting back the complaints/responses. Actually, it's amazing how many people came forward with their own problems after finding out that they weren't the only ones. I think many people suffer from the old "I payed a lot of money, so it must be MY fault if it doesn't work" mentality, which is completely unwarranted of course. Although I'll admit that I was much less vocal about my own problems with the PX-712a before I found out how wide spread it was. And of course the more media I test that fails during mid burn process, the less and less impressed I am with the "quality" of the drive.

I have to ask this question when thinking about Plextor;
Which is better: Being able to burn really high quality media really well, but ONLY that media. Or being able to burn REALLY high quality media really well, AND being able to burn a wide range of other media with good or useable results? Personally, I consider the latter to be the better burner. It isn't impressive to say that a burner can burn top rate media very well, it's impressive when you can burn 'D' grade crappy DVDRs made in China, and still have them play back in an 'el cheapo DVD player. Not that I'd recommend ever doing that of course, but it's far more impressive to see a drive do that, then to see it burn Taiyo Yuden really well.
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Postby Rich on Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:48 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Actually, it's amazing how many people came forward with their own problems after finding out that they weren't the only ones.


I think I'm having a situation partial of what you speak of and partial of 2 other factors.

I bought some Maxell (RICOH) media when I bought my drive (the media was a tip from DVD_Addict) and it has lasted me until just recently and it seemed to burn fine. This 2nd factor kept me from becoming personally aware of the problem til the past week.

The third factor was that I never tested it other than to file test the results which has been fine.

Now I ran out and bought some TDK (RICHO) and different than the previous media I tested it (since I started reading about problems). This media was fine until it passed the 4 gig mark then it started to go south, but still acceptable. I returned it.

Now I have some cheap stuff, the compusa 4x DVD+R that is on sale now and it is worse.

I have a 100 pack of 8x DVD+R Taiyo Yuden to be delivered tomorrow.

I'm anxious to run the tests on that stuff and I feel great promise.

It would be great to get a fix in a firmware though.

I guess I'll pick up some of that Maxell 4x on sale this week to test it too.

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Postby avsgenie on Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:34 pm

Hi,

I debated the issue too, and got a 712 against all the good advice for 2 reasons. Firstly, I wanted something that could do some form of quality check, and secondly because I thought no matter how many reports of bad drives there are, they must still be in a minority, right?

Well, maybe the reverse is true. Maybe the number of good drives is in the minority. What I don't understand is why Plextor would ship such a drive with Q-check. Talk about "hoisted by their own petard".

Like most other people, I have found unbelievable pickiness and inability to burn decent quality at anything other than the disk rated speed. You can only burn what media you can get hold of, and I also wanted to settle on a minimum of 3 media, so important data could be burned 3 times, in case of unforseen longevity problems with one of the disk types.

Here are some provisional results. I have only had the drive 4 days. This is for firmware 1.04, with quality media bought in the UK, all individually wrapped - no spindles, Q-Check PI/PO Test (SUM8).

BurnSpeed/PIE Avg/PIE Max/PIE Total

DataWrite -R GreyTop x8 FUJIFILM03
x4/2.05/280/292901

Maxell -R x4 RITEKG04
x4/0.73/30/92778

Maxell +R Made in Japan YUDEN000T01
x4/0.66/22/94889

Plextor +R x4 PX-DVD+R4JC1 Made in Japan YUDEN000T01
x4/0.20/14/28487
x8/24.35/1001/3473810

Plextor +R x8 PX-DVD+R8JC1/Plus Made in Japan YUDEN000T02
x4/0.56/22/78146
x8/2.16/64/307989
x12/0.96/114/137296

TDK -R x4 DVD-R47EB Made in Taiwan TTG01
x4/6.36/127/901419
x8 Write failed

Verbatim -R x4 "Pastel" 43267 Made in Japan TYG01
x4/0.25/20/35196

Verbatim -R x4 "Photo Printable" 43235 Made in Taiwan MCC 01RG20
x4 Write failed

Verbatim -R x8 "Photo Printable" 43272 Made in Singapore MCC 02RG20
x4/0.13/18/17885
x8 Read failed after 600mb

Verbatim +R x8 "Photo Printable" 43274 Made in Taiwan MCC 003
x4/0.33/36/47671
x8/26.24/636/3744163

My conclusion is that this can only be considered a x4 burner at best, and as soon as all the votes are in I'll go for a Pioneer or NEC, and use the Plextor as just a reader/checker/spare.

Edit - Verbatim +R x8 x4 added
Last edited by avsgenie on Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ClayBuster on Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:42 pm

some scans. All at 8x

Media Prodisc_R03

NEC 3500
Image

Pioneer 108
Image

Plextor 712
Image
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Postby pchilson on Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:26 pm

I guess some of us did get good drives...
Shouldn't be a "luck of the draw" but I guess it is... :-?

Plextor PX-712A PRODISC R03 03 @ 12x
Image

Plextor PX-712A YUDEN000 T01 00 @ 8x
Image
Last edited by pchilson on Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby aviationwiz on Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:59 pm

My 712 is still kicking, works great, just don't use sub-standard media. The whole price argument really doesn't work anymore, see: http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17533

That's roughly the same cost as other drives out on the market. No complaints here at all.
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Postby Shredder on Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:13 am

aviationwiz wrote:My 712 is still kicking, works great, just don't use sub-standard media.


Of course. However, most people just buy cheap media on sale in local retail stores where you can just go buy some easily without waiting, and quality media such as TY costs more than low quality media and is harder to find.

aviationwiz wrote:The whole price argument really doesn't work anymore, see: http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17533

That's roughly the same cost as other drives out on the market. No complaints here at all.


Plextor 712A price went down alot, but why would you want 12X single layer burner only? And $30 rebate? Not many people want to deal with rebates. You can easily get Nec 3500, Benq 16x0 or Poineer 108 for around $90 each without any rebates. Speed difference is virtually insignificant between 12X PCAV and 16X CAV so you can ignore that, but if you are gonna get a new burner why not go for slightly faster 16X CAV burner with DL write support?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:05 am

I'll stick with well rounded burners I think... if I wanted a burner that could only burn one or two types of media properly, I'd... well, I'd be really limiting myself, that's what I'd be! :lol:
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Postby shimman on Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:51 am

tdk, fuji, verbatim are not exactly sub-standard yet many 712as are not able to burn them well; pchilson also did not get the good result until pchilson got the right; i was also lucky to get a good replacement, but there are many unfortunate

it was 708a's pickiness which drove me join cdrlabs forum & 712a is making me stay here everyday...712a's pickiness could have been forgiven if the price was around 130usd from the beginning but a person who paid about 180usd for 712a....i am simply disappointed; for about 80usd after mir, i would be disappointed since there are drives a generation ahead for about 90usd

from plextor premium, i would not count on the fix but who knows
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Postby noycan on Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:37 pm

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm buying a DVD writer for my work computer, and reliability is very important. I liked the Plextor name and the price, but I'm going to pass on this drive.

Thanks again.
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