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the London terrorist thing

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Postby TheWizard on Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:14 am

dodecahedron wrote:i was quite surprised, i'd thought Americans were smarter.


Never underestimate American stupidity! :P
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Postby aviationwiz on Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:32 am

dodecahedron wrote:(as an Israeli i have my own beef with France and the French, but lets not get into that...)


Yeah, but if your beef with France is what I think it is, it's much more reasonable than the typical American beef with France.
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Postby JamieW on Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:33 pm

Monte, you're a stupid asshole.

"Anyone care?" What the hell are you thinking? Oh, wait, you never think. Everything you write oozes flaming stupidity. Every decision you tell everyone here about further cements the knowledge that you are in fact the dumbest person on this forum.

Of course people care. And only the monumentally stupid would think that this subject wouldn't be one that people would be sensitive about and/or think that particular phrasing wouldn't inflame that sensitivity.

I think more people care about a random bombing in a country where most of us do not actually know anyone than anyone would really care about anything happening to you now. At least if something happened to you it would aid in evolution. Right now you're basically a brainless husk of a human looking to breed at any cost and I personally now more than ever completely deplore you, your existence, and your potential for offspring as they must surely be as dumb as you.
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Postby Alektron on Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:15 pm

There is a huge difference between Fox News and all the other media outlets. All the outlets have some bias or some kind of spin. Fox News is in a class by itself. It is so strongly in favor of Republican/Conservative that is amazing that not everyone realizes this. A while back, I had a sense that Fox News was leaning this way, and I ran across a documentary called "Mupert Murdock's War on Journalism". I wouldn't say that I believe everything that the DVD states, but there is enough truth in it to make a cogent case of Fox's agenda. I primarily watch CNN, but it has biases here and there. I still turn to Fox sometimes to laugh at the deceitful and stuttering guest panel on Brit Hume's show (ie. the idiot named Fred Barnes) or watch the relatively unpolitical Cavuto economic news show.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ance&s=dvd



Never underestimate American stupidity!

I'm never surpised to see dumb jokes like those. I hope you have a more original, veritable joke next time.
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Postby Boba_Fett on Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:38 pm

Ian wrote:The Bush regime has not followed the Kyoto treaty either. :roll:

There are so many problems here in the US. I'd really like to see people fed and educated here, before we send our money to the other side of the world. With our economy in the toilet, we're not really in a position to do this anymore either.


Excellent point (not the knocking Bush one, the other one :P ). While stopping all aid may make us look like a-holes to a few left leaning countries, they need to realize 2 things:

1. Most of Africa's uncivilized territories (and some civilized ones) have complete asshole dictators for leaders. These pricks play nice when people offer money to help their citizens but just spend it all for themselves later (me thinks back to the Blackhawk Down movie). The world should really sit down and think this out (replacing asshole moron dictators with true caring democracy oriented leaders). Until Africa can sort itself out (with or without the worlds help), all this money for food and AIDS prevention will be 100% wasted.

2. We (the US) easily donate more money to foriegn countries than every other country on the face of this planet combined. We've been doing it for EVER. To take a little time out to help ourselves recouperate (barring extenuating circumstances) shouldn't be too much to ask.

I personally think after the Iraq War is settled that (unless Iran and/or North Korea start stirring up some serious shit) we should stop at least 90% of foreign aid immediately.
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Postby Alektron on Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:33 pm

Well, the original thread was the Terrorism in London.
Speaking on that, the authorities seem to have some suspects. I look forward on getting to the bottom of this terrorism conspiracy.
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Postby VEFF on Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:32 pm

1) I feel terrible for the family of the guy shot to death in the London subway system by multiple bullets, who later turned out to have nothing at all to do with terrorism.

I am not sure why he ran (maybe he had stolen something?) or got scared.

I will have to read up on the whole story.


Anyone have opinions on that aspect of the story?


2) One thing I wish they would change is the REactive stance:
After (even before with all the warning signs they missed, many due to the fact that the agencies FBI , CIA and local law enforcement didn't communicate well with one another) 9/11, the government and local authorities should have been far more pro-active.

- It wasn't until AFTER the Madrid train bombings that NJ/NY train security was increased (even then it seems like it barely increased, unless there were A LOT of plain clothes / undercover people).

- It wasn't until after the London bombings AND attempted second wave, that random bag searches were implemented.

I know it costs an awful lot to defend against potential and terrorists will always be able to exploit flaws and weaknesses no matter what, but the stance needs to be PROactive.

I have always told people this, and was happy that Bernard Kerik mentioned it last week; maybe at least a few people in positions of power will wake up.
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Postby jase on Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:40 pm

> I am not sure why he ran (maybe he had stolen something?) or got scared.


The suggestion is that he ran because he was an illegal immigrant -- apparently his visa lapsed two years ago, although there seems to be some doubt about this (typical British government, asked a simple question and get three days of fumbling around before you get an answer).

I get the impression this could drag on, this was a bad mistake by the police.
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:17 am

These things happen.
They are unfortunate, but unavoidable if one is going to defend oneself against an enemy who attacks continually and unrelentingly.
There is a name for it: Collateral damage.

Which means that we have an inseparable scenario: The more of the enemy that we are successful in killing, the more that the innocents will suffer.

It goes with the territory.

The only way that we can totally avoid such collateral damage is just to surrender completely and let the Islamic terrorists kill us all at their whim.


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Postby VEFF on Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:27 pm

I just read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/28/london.tube/index.html

This time it was the UK that apparently made the mistake of not allowing
an arrest. I say "apparently" because I don't have all the details.

In the past the US apparently blew at least one ooportunity to arrest at least one, possibly multiple - I don't recall the full story, suspects before the 9/11 attacks, by not following up on, or ignoring, things such as leads, evidence and suspicious activity.
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Postby VEFF on Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:30 pm

jase wrote:> I am not sure why he ran (maybe he had stolen something?) or got scared.


The suggestion is that he ran because he was an illegal immigrant -- apparently his visa lapsed two years ago, although there seems to be some doubt about this (typical British government, asked a simple question and get three days of fumbling around before you get an answer).

I get the impression this could drag on, this was a bad mistake by the police.


I see; that makes sense, thanks jase.

This was indeed a bad mistake.
I respect the job the police do; it is often risky and stressful.
There is SOMETIMES, but not always, a fine line between being over zealous and not doing enough...

I'll have to read more accounts of exatly what happened.
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Postby jase on Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:15 pm

It seems they've caught the four failed alleged suicide bombers now, the family of one turned him in and by the looks of things he led them to the others.

The July 7th bombings personally affected me I've since found out; Bill Wise, my line manager's boss about 8 years ago, was one of the 52 killed. He was on the bus.
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Postby Alektron on Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:54 pm

Did anyone hear the rumor that on July 7th, there was a pre-existing training exercise held by the London authorities? Does anyone think there is something suspicious about this?

(Sorry for the pop-ups)
http://www.torontofreepress.com/2005/cover070905a.htm


Also, I noticed that one of the photos of the 4 bombers walking towards a doorway shows something strange. The guy in the background with the white cap doesn't seem to have a face. The fence bar behind him runs right through where his face should be. Open the photo and you can see it. There is a zoom photo somewhere on the internet that I saw last week, but I cannot find it today.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200507/r52780_142094.jpg
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Postby VEFF on Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:51 am

jase wrote:It seems they've caught the four failed alleged suicide bombers now, the family of one turned him in and by the looks of things he led them to the others.

The July 7th bombings personally affected me I've since found out; Bill Wise, my line manager's boss about 8 years ago, was one of the 52 killed. He was on the bus.


I don't know you personally, or your former line manager's boss, but I am sorry to hear it nevertheless! :(

Sadly, quite a few former colleagues of mine - I had worked with them about 4 years earlier - were killed in the WTC attacks, including a young man who sat next to me for a while. He was in his mid 20s and newly engaged. He had most of his life ahead of him.
I happened to sit down - didn't see who it was till I had taken my seat, being tired from work etc. - across from his father on the train commuting home one night. He downplayed it, when I expressed my condolences.
It must be tough. I also know for a fact that the boy's mother took it very hard, not that it is suprising of course.

My former boss attended some 35 funerals related to the attacks!


If I hadn't switched careers - my former company was taken over and located in the WTC - or if had accepted an offer to interview for a position with a firm that was in the WTC, I might not be here today!

I was in the WTC every night to take the PATH train home (inc. Sept 10th)l however in the mornings, I preferred the convenience of the ferry,
which is why I wasn't near the WTC at the time.

I used to work in the adjacent World Financial Center...

As it is, I wasn't working that far away...
I actually heard the 2nd plane hit the tower. The skyscrapers, fortunately, screened the view.

My ex-gf was traumatized by the event, since she had been right there
exiting the building after commuting in.

Anyway, I could go on...


My condolences jase!
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Postby jase on Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:04 pm

Thanks, but it's one of those things in life that happens... as I've said on here before my uncle had his leg blown off by the IRA over 20 years ago in Belfast (my dad's family live in Antrim). I've seen the aftermath of a car-bomb in Belfast as well, not a pleasant sight. Although it sounds as if you've had more exposure to terrorists than anyone should have to endure, sorry to hear that :(

As an aside, my brother lives in Leeds, where these young terrorists were born and brought up. A mosque not far from where he lives was torched a couple of nights after the bombings by a bunch of white youths who they reckon are members of the BNP (National-Front type far-right extremists). Scum, no better than the terrorists they say they're "punishing" (so setting fire to a religious building is justified is it?). I despair of humanity sometimes.
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