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Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:13 am**

Gotta feel bad for the guys that paid $1000 for their first gen Blu-ray Disc player. The way it looks, they can't be upgraded to include features like picture in picture.

The Blu-ray Disc Assn. has mandated that all hardware streeting after that date must be able to play back picture-in-picture video, as driven by BD Java interactive technology. Many players on shelves now can handle BD Java, but to varying degrees. Few Blu-ray players include picture-in-picture capability, for instance, not even the PlayStation 3.

Sony’s current and summer 2007 stand-alone models and available Pioneer and Philips units are among those lacking the picture-in-picture feature.

With two different pools of players at retail in the near future, studios will have to navigate how to best create titles that play universally. A title with a highly touted picture-in-picture feature, for example, might not play properly on all players.

Here's the most interesting part...

Yet Parsons doubts that firmware alone would facilitate picture-in-picture, a relatively complicated part of the BD Java specification.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:28 am**

The Blu-ray camp really dropped the ball with this phased in specification crap. It really serves no purpose but to screw the consumer. The HD DVD camp should be applauded for having one universal spec.

One would at least HOPE that the PS3 will be fixable with a firmware upgrade.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:35 am**

Don't go applauding the HD DVD camp JUST yet.... there are rumours that their cheap Chinese made HD DVD players might have broken spec to reach the cost point.

Of course we won't know until the players actually come out, and with no street date on them (although we now have a picture!) I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 am**

For all we know HD DVD could be dead before those Chinese players show up.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:45 pm**

[buck] wrote:For all we know HD DVD could be dead before those Chinese players show up.

You make a good point, with weekly sales now at 4:1 in favour of Blu-Ray, and year to date sales at >2:1 and climbing in favour of Blu-Ray, it's quite possible that the cheap Chinese players won't make it to market in time for there to be a format to support.

Back on topic; I'm not overly concerned about the PIP functions personally. I'm more then happy to wait until my second Blu-Ray player purchase to get all those added features.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:48 pm**

Have we heard what manufacturers are going to make these cheap ass HD DVD players? I read something about it last year but have yet to see anything come from it.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:05 pm**

Ian wrote:Have we heard what manufacturers are going to make these cheap ass HD DVD players? I read something about it last year but have yet to see anything come from it.

There's some info here:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=5079

It could all be garbage though, it's hard to tell. The unit displayed was said to be only an empty shell with no connectors. And yet they're on schedule to have a "dozen different HD DVD players to be sold under 30 to 40 brand names"

....sure they are.... :lol:

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:26 pm**

[buck] wrote:For all we know HD DVD could be dead before those Chinese players show up.

I think that the next holiday season (end of 2007) will be a key period in the HD format wars. Due to that, I don't think the low cost HD DVD players will be "too late". Unless they miss this season...

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:41 am**

Does anybody know if there is going to be a similar situation with the Blu-ray burners ? (in computers)

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:45 am**

frank1 wrote:Does anybody know if there is going to be a similar situation with the Blu-ray burners ? (in computers)

It shouldn't matter with PC drives. The playback is handled by the software so as long as your PC meets the requirements, you shouldn't have any problems.

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:00 am**

Going back to Blu-ray standalone players ...
After the recent breaking of copy protections AACS on Blu-ray and HD-DVD media, Sony announced a new encryption mechanism known as "CLEFIA"
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/New-DRM-pr ... -Sony.html

Does this mean that we will after each breaking of copy protections we will have to upgrade the firmware of standalone players in order to be able to play the new movies published on Blu-ray with CLEFIA encryption
and so on, and so on …

This news also says « it will be soon implemented in hardware »
Does that mean that the first Blu-ray players without CLEFIA in the hardware will not react to this new DRM and play the news discs ?
Or not be able to play them at all ?

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:12 am**

Here's the original article, which has much more info than the blurb at CD Freaks:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... r-drm.html

I highly doubt it will be used for Blu-ray. If its actually implemented, you'll probably see it used in portable media players.

Keep in mind that BD+ really has yet to be implemented by movie studios. Once it is, you won't be able to copy Blu-ray movies.. at least until they crack that too.

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:15 pm**

The original article about CLEFIA really left things vague as to what it was going to be used on. It seemed to be hinted that it was for Blu-Ray, but also hinted towards uses for audio playback hardware. It's not even impossible that it could show up in HD DVD potentially either.... since Sony is also a member of the DVD Forum.

I really wish these things were more clear.

Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:19 pm**

Here's the original press release. It doesn't say anything about video at all.. just music and images. I think some news reporters are just guessing that it also applies to video and Blu-ray.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press ... index.html

Posted: **Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:52 am**

[buck] wrote:For all we know HD DVD could be dead before those Chinese players show up.

Alarmist much? Just yesterday, 70 new titles were announced as forthcoming for the HD DVD format. This format war is not nearly over and my 360 add-on is thankful for that.

Posted: **Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:38 am**

vinnie97 wrote:
[buck] wrote:For all we know HD DVD could be dead before those Chinese players show up.

Alarmist much? Just yesterday, 70 new titles were announced as forthcoming for the HD DVD format. This format war is not nearly over and my 360 add-on is thankful for that.

Yesterday, as in April Fools?

Posted: **Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:03 pm**

It may have been the day prior...I just heard about it yesterday.

Posted: **Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:36 pm**

vinnie97 wrote:It may have been the day prior...I just heard about it yesterday.

Nah, I'm just bugging you. The 70 titles were announced a while back, and most of them are dual format. You should read http://www.highdefdigest.com/ for all the up to date High Definition news. They're very VERY good. You'll even find a few HD DVD supporters left that haven't had all their hope dragged out of them yet.

Posted: **Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:36 am**

lol..thanx, was actually reading on their forum that the that dual format thing doesn't seem to be working as well as hoped with Universal canning several planned dual format releases (due to technical/compatibility issues, I guess). A shame, too, because I liked the idea and purchased one of the discs here. :-?

Only thing I don't like about it is how much more careful you have to be with the disc itself.

Posted: **Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:35 pm**

vinnie97 wrote:Only thing I don't like about it is how much more careful you have to be with the disc itself.

Yeah, that's the big problem with the double sided discs. You can't even put them down without worry about a scratch! They really need a scratch proof protective coating on the double siders...

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:07 pm**

PC World talked to Andy Parsons a bit about this. I think this quote sums it up pretty well.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13045 ... ticle.html

Parsons notes that these new capabilities "are not make-or-break features. Picture-in-picture is nice for on-screen directory commentaries and the like. But the fundamental functions of a Blu-ray player are already available in existing players.

"And," he stresses, "your existing Blu-ray player will continue to play future titles as it does today."

Essentially, he's saying that your player will continue to do basic tasks like play video but you won't get the cool new features.

PC World lays it out in black and white too:

Current Blu-ray players won't be able to play an on-demand picture-in-picture commentary, for example, that may come on a disc a year from now. Nor will they be able to connect to the Internet for future interactive functions that may be incorporated into the disc. But when that happens, Hollywood studio technologists have explained to me, they will likely program the disc in such a way that--if your player can't support the new feature--the option won't even show as available during playback.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:20 pm**

Another article on DailyTech.com that I was quoted in.

http://dailytech.com/Bluray+Disc+Specif ... le6702.htm

“Blu-ray player requirements and BD-Java specifications have been gradually changed over and over again, which has caused a good amount of grief for player manufacturers,” said optical storage analyst Wesley Novack. “The new specification and requirements will ensure that all Blu-ray players manufactured past October will be able to support the full range of BD-Java capabilities, including picture in picture and more.”

Early adopters of Blu-ray players may find themselves with inadequate hardware to support media using BD Java software.

Novack continued, “This might be bad news for early adopters who have already purchased a player, but it will not prevent them from playing back future Blu-ray movies. Owners of first generation Blu-ray players will probably not be able to use the full range of interactive features available on future Blu-ray Disc titles.”

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:59 pm**

Tootin' that horn, Wessy?

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:59 pm**

vinnie97 wrote:Tootin' that horn, Wessy?

Hey, it's on topic. Might as well let all my CDRLabs buddies know about it.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:24 pm**

I see Dailytech finally linked back to Wesleytech.com.

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