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Ian, in the Plex 716 updated review the DVD-R DL the PIF's are listed as Zero, but when comparing the BENQ1620 scans we can see that that's not the case. The PIF's are considerably higher on the Plex drive compared to the Pioneer. The plex might be a bit faster but sacrificing some quality it seems.

The bottom of the plex graph on the review page is chopped off? where the PIF's should be.

No, its not cut off. Plextools' Sum8 test measures only PIE and POF.. not PIF. Ideally, you don't want to see any POF errors.

But yeah, if you look at the CD Speed graphs, the PIE and PIF rates are higher on the Plex.

If you guys want, I'll post a Plextools scan of the Pioneer burned media later tonite. That way you can compare those and the BenQ results.

Ian,
c't mentioned that (although standalone DVD-players have few problems with this media) very few DVD-ROM drives are able to read these DVD-R DL discs properly. Could you check this in some of the drives you have available?

G

Oh man, that's certainly a show stopper if it's true.

There's still a huge number of dvd-rom and dvd/cdrw combo drives out there.

I'd wager a guess that their combined number (quantity in use) is still several orders of magnitude greater than that of dvd burners.

regards,
halc

Well yeah, some drives also have problems with DVD+R DL as well.

If I have some time I'll run a few tests on the DVD-ROM drives I have around here.

Ian wrote:Well yeah, some drives also have problems with DVD+R DL as well.

If I have some time I'll run a few tests on the DVD-ROM drives I have around here.

That'd be great.
IIRC, the drives had problems reading DVD+R DL if they had the +DL booktype (mostly OK with DVD-ROM booktype). The -DL all have a DVD-ROM booktype (nothing else possible).

G

MediumRare wrote:The -DL all have a DVD-ROM booktype (nothing else possible).

Nope, from what I've seen it's only possible to have a DVD-R booktype, and not a DVD-RDL or DVD-ROM booktype.

Most of the drives I've tried have identified the discs as DVD-R.. not DVD-R DL or DVD-ROM.

dolphinius_rex wrote:Nope, from what I've seen it's only possible to have a DVD-R booktype, and not a DVD-RDL or DVD-ROM booktype.

My mistake. I was quoting from memory and I knew it wasn't DVD-R DL. Maybe the compatibility would be better if it actually were DVD-ROM. Incidentally, c't also said the PS2 and XBox coped well.

D_R, do you have any of these available?

G

MediumRare wrote:

dolphinius_rex wrote:Nope, from what I've seen it's only possible to have a DVD-R booktype, and not a DVD-RDL or DVD-ROM booktype.

My mistake. I was quoting from memory and I knew it wasn't DVD-R DL. Maybe the compatibility would be better if it actually were DVD-ROM. Incidentally, c't also said the PS2 and XBox coped well.

D_R, do you have any of these available?

G

DVD-RDL? Or PS2's and XBox's?

Well, the answer is yes to both ....well, actually I don't have an Xbox, but I do have an un-modded PS2. I'm going to be getting a Pioneer DVR-109 in the next couple days I expect, so I can try burning one on there... but I'm hesitant because I only have *2* and I kinda wanna use them for reviews

Comeon really the whole communitry and the whole warez/pirate scene is waiteing to see. (Also I'm personally because I made a bet and said it wouldn't do better on PS2. . )if DVD-R DL allows copies of dual layer PS2 games.
Okay you might sacrifice a disc so you have one disc less to test. . OUch however in return much good information is gathered.
See p.m.

RJW wrote:Comeon really the whole communitry and the whole warez/pirate scene is waiteing to see. (Also I'm personally because I made a bet and said it wouldn't do better on PS2. . )if DVD-R DL allows copies of dual layer PS2 games.
Okay you might sacrifice a disc so you have one disc less to test. . OUch however in return much good information is gathered.
See p.m.

Well, my PS isn't modded, and I'm not going to get it modded for a single test... it's too much money! I don't mind spending lot's and lot's of TIME on things, but money is in too much of a short supply for me. And since I don't have time to play games anymore, I really can't justift a PS2 mod chip.

However! The unmodded PS2 should be able to play movies without a problem! So is a DVD-VIDEO burned onto a DVD-RDL disc ok for testing on a PS2? If people don't mind, I'll go about doing that when I get my DVR-109 soon

Will ask if a movie will react exactly the same.

Here are some of the screenshots people have requested.

Nice fist shot ! (enough propaganda for today.)

I talked with some friends and a dual layer running a DVD movie at PS2 is not the same as a game. So checking if the video runs won't do.

According to C't dual layer video's do work on X-box and PS-2 and most video players.but ar problematic on dvd-roms. C't thinks that it might be because of the lower reflecitivity.(16% DVD-R DL compared to 18% DVD-ROM)

For the +R DUAL LAYER
SONY SCPH-30004 and X-BOX (PHILIPS drive) they reported also that DVD movies worked in number eleven of 2004.

Tricky is tha dual Layer +R media has also a standard of 16% however MKM dual layer +R disc measured in C't 11-2004 did perform 18% - 18.7%.

So it seems that we are still stuck when it comes to testing if Dual layer -R gives us the option to backup PS2 games.(I still say no but we will see as someone who has the right tools test it. which probally is when the media hits the streets.)

RJW wrote:So it seems that we are still stuck when it comes to testing if Dual layer -R gives us the option to backup PS2 games.(I still say no but we will see as someone who has the right tools test it. which probally is when the media hits the streets.)

I'll see what I can figure out... maybe I'll be able to pull something off

Just got a confirmation from a good friend that Verbatim Dual Layer DVD-R works for video DVD's.
Still no word on if it works for games to. So if you could fix it any time soon it would be nice.

DVD-R DL game backups would be very interesting indeed.
Keep in mind that only 1 test using early sample DVD-R DL media might not give us a definitive answer if the test fails.
But I would still like to see / read about the results of such a test.

Using theDMS4 modchip should allow PS2 game backups to play on most types of media.
Reports are floating around that gt4 backups on DVD+R DL are working fine.

Some of the newer modchips with the right firmware support Dual Layer +R thanks to a workarround. So it might be nice to see if dual layer -R doesn't need these work arrounds and works with most other chips to.