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anyone tried princo 4x media?

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

anyone tried princo 4x media?

Postby machoboy6 on Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:25 pm

i got a dru and a a05 and i want to use them at 4x and the cheapest 4x media i coulnd find are princos at 102 dollars for 100 pcs. i would like to know if they can be played in my ps2 for movies and games.
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princo media

Postby dellboy on Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:02 am

50 / 50 compatability ,

i have a dru 500ax,

ritek are better.
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Postby jase on Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:16 am

With the Sony, Princo discs don't work too well. As I keep saying, the Sony is a +R writer with -R support. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that ANYONE writing mainly -R discs DO NOT get a +R writer.

For the A05, a -R writer, these Princo -R discs work quite well.

A *good* Princo 4x disc has the beating of a Ritek disc, to be perfectly honest. They will *always* write at 4x on a Pioneer writer.

Princo's main problem is quality control, and the fact that unscrupulous distributors and dealers are notorious for mixing good and bad discs. Princo have a number of production lines, and only a select few produce the good media.

If you get the Princo-branded discs, you're very likely to get good product.

Don't think, that just because the discs don't perform on these Sony and NEC drives, that they are not good discs. That's the fault of inferior firmware in these +R drives, not the discs.
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Postby tazdevl on Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:33 am

jase wrote:With the Sony, Princo discs don't work too well. As I keep saying, the Sony is a +R writer with -R support. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that ANYONE writing mainly -R discs DO NOT get a +R writer.

For the A05, a -R writer, these Princo -R discs work quite well.

A *good* Princo 4x disc has the beating of a Ritek disc, to be perfectly honest. They will *always* write at 4x on a Pioneer writer.

Princo's main problem is quality control, and the fact that unscrupulous distributors and dealers are notorious for mixing good and bad discs. Princo have a number of production lines, and only a select few produce the good media.

If you get the Princo-branded discs, you're very likely to get good product.

Don't think, that just because the discs don't perform on these Sony and NEC drives, that they are not good discs. That's the fault of inferior firmware in these +R drives, not the discs.


As you said, with Princo, it's the media. Quality control just isn't there like it is with other manufacturers. The DVDR media market is like the CDR market 18 months ago. You can't expect to buy cheap media and have it burn and work reliably 100% of the time.

However, I've burned 14 Princo -Rs with zero coasters and had zero playback issues.. Not to mention that I use -R media all the time and have zero issues. I"ve used about 7 brands of -Rs at this point. Not only have I found Ritek to be the most reliable, I've found it to be the most compatible.

Sorry but that Sony +R theory is bunk.
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Postby jase on Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:30 pm

Is it heck as like.

You explain to me then why of around 30 contacts I know who have Sony burners, only a couple can reliably burn each Princo disc put in their machines at 4x? Most burn these discs at 2x.

Whereas of the 50+ people I am in direct contact with who have A05/6 writers, all of them can write these discs at full 4x?

And how is it that, with standard firmware, NO-ONE can write reliably at 4x with NEC +R or Optorite +R writers? (Mostly these drives can't write them AT ALL).

With Princo, it is only PARTLY QC issues. ALL manufacturers produce a certain number of discs that do not meet the required standard. Princo have a lower yield than some other manufacturers. This sub-standard media, although the Taiwanese manufacturers don't like to admit it (and often make up bogus scare-stories about fake media and the like), is sold out of the back door in bulk to distributors.

It is also not generally recognised that Princo has a number of grades of 4x media. Some of it is very, very good. Some of it is hopeless. That's not QC, that's money talking -- the lower quality lines are cheaper.

SOME distros DELIBERATELY mix good and bad media in spindles.

And this isn't just a -R problem before someone starts spouting off about inferior formats again. Now that +R media is becoming more common I'm seeing just as many inferior +R discs appearing in mail-order outlets, usually as "special offers".

But that is beside the point. The +R writers are consistently less capable of burning -R media than the -R writers are. Likewise, with some cheaper +R media which is starting to appear, the Sony and Ricoh writers seem to be making a better job of this than Pioneer writers for example (although, the NEC clones are proving just as media-unfriendly with the cheap +R also).

I maintain that a basic principle holds true. If ONE model of writer can write a disc 100% and the resulting disc performs well, then if a different model cannot write the same disc that is because the DRIVE is inferior, NOT the media.
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Postby tazdevl on Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:45 pm

jase wrote:Is it heck as like.

You explain to me then why of around 30 contacts I know who have Sony burners, only a couple can reliably burn each Princo disc put in their machines at 4x? Most burn these discs at 2x.

Whereas of the 50+ people I am in direct contact with who have A05/6 writers, all of them can write these discs at full 4x?

And how is it that, with standard firmware, NO-ONE can write reliably at 4x with NEC +R or Optorite +R writers? (Mostly these drives can't write them AT ALL).

With Princo, it is only PARTLY QC issues. ALL manufacturers produce a certain number of discs that do not meet the required standard. Princo have a lower yield than some other manufacturers. This sub-standard media, although the Taiwanese manufacturers don't like to admit it (and often make up bogus scare-stories about fake media and the like), is sold out of the back door in bulk to distributors.

It is also not generally recognised that Princo has a number of grades of 4x media. Some of it is very, very good. Some of it is hopeless. That's not QC, that's money talking -- the lower quality lines are cheaper.

SOME distros DELIBERATELY mix good and bad media in spindles.

And this isn't just a -R problem before someone starts spouting off about inferior formats again. Now that +R media is becoming more common I'm seeing just as many inferior +R discs appearing in mail-order outlets, usually as "special offers".

But that is beside the point. The +R writers are consistently less capable of burning -R media than the -R writers are. Likewise, with some cheaper +R media which is starting to appear, the Sony and Ricoh writers seem to be making a better job of this than Pioneer writers for example (although, the NEC clones are proving just as media-unfriendly with the cheap +R also).

I maintain that a basic principle holds true. If ONE model of writer can write a disc 100% and the resulting disc performs well, then if a different model cannot write the same disc that is because the DRIVE is inferior, NOT the media.


Simple explanation, they got bad discs. It happens more often than you allude to. There could have been surface errors, fingerprints on the bottom which introduced errors during the burning process.

I'd also toss user error and software issues into the mix as well. Their problems could be attributed to a few other issues like multitasking during the burn, problems with the source file and BURNING SOFTWARE issues. Most folks use Nero to burn DVDs and I've found based on my research that it is the main source of problems with DVD burns. If anything, that's your common thread.

Funny enough, I've had issues with +R media whereas with -R I haven't.

Again, I'll say, the theory is bunk.

Some interesting reading on formats
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Article ... s&Series=0
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Postby melsmed on Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:37 pm

I have a dru-510, last firmware.

EZCD 6 Plt burns at 2x, no matter what. Nero burns at 4x.

My next buy would be Ritek for sure.
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Postby Phoenix '97 on Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:19 am

I've tried both Princo 1x and 2x -R media with my Toshiba -R drive. Both are readable at about the same speeds on my DVD drives. The only problem I encountered was when I had a small opaque particle on a disc while recording; afterwards I had to re-record a 300MB folder as 20 small files in there couldn't be read. Other than that, my recorder has been able to read back every single file written to over 30 Princo DVD-Rs.
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Postby jase on Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:58 am

Simple explanation, they got bad discs. It happens more often than you allude to. There could have been surface errors, fingerprints on the bottom which introduced errors during the burning process.

I'd also toss user error and software issues into the mix as well. Their problems could be attributed to a few other issues like multitasking during the burn, problems with the source file and BURNING SOFTWARE issues. Most folks use Nero to burn DVDs and I've found based on my research that it is the main source of problems with DVD burns. If anything, that's your common thread.

Funny enough, I've had issues with +R media whereas with -R I haven't.

Again, I'll say, the theory is bunk.


I am sorry, but I just do not accept what you are saying.

If you read my post you will notice that I am defining a TREND, not just individual users. And the TREND is, that user*s* with Sony writers have more problems writing cheaper DVD-R media than Pioneer owners do.

That's not bad discs. These people are buying the *same* media from the *same* reseller. They may well be bad discs, but then how come the Pioneer *can* write the *same* media at full *4 SPEED*, when the Sony users *cannot*. Software is not relevant here -- because the spread of people is wide enough. The burner *says* 4x burning, then takes half an hour to burn the disc -- that means it's burning at 2x. Then every so often the drive will burn the same discs at 4x, correctly.

I have *never* seen this behaviour on a Pioneer burner.

And the NEC drives (and the one Optorite burner I've come across) will *not* burn the *same* media *at all*.

There is no fixed pattern to it, either. Some Sony writers will write the discs without fault, just like the Pioneer. Some of them always write the discs 2x. Some will sometimes write 2x, sometimes 4x.

And here's the rub. I have taken a "bad" Sony writer and put it into a machine containing an identical, but "good" Sony writer, with the same model number and the same firmware. The "bad" Sony writer in the "good" system *still* wrote the Princo 4x media at 2x. Put the good one back in, bang, writes at 4x again.

Yes, the Princo media isn't the best quality on the market. And I am fully aware of the inconsistencies -- did you not read the lengthy piece on shady practices on the previous post? :lol:

But that does not alter the fact that the Sony writers I have seen (of various models, dates and firmwares) have all had varying levels of problems with cheap DVD-R discs that simply do not happen with Pioneer writers.

This leads me to one of two possible conclusions:

1) Sony firmware is crap;

2) Sony QA is crap.

Take your pick.

The fact that NEC drives in my experience are EVEN WORSE, and that the Optorite from my experience, and the postings of people on here and elsewhere, is nearly as bad with cheap discs leads me to the conclusion that either:

1) +R writers have issues with -R discs;

2) Multiple +R manufacturers can't make a decent burner to save their lives.

Again, take your pick.

It is not good enough to say the "theory" is "bunk". I have seen entire forums full of posts about this problem -- www.mediaforums.net being a prime example (the Media Discussion thread is interesting).

Yes, Princo discs are not brilliant, but I say again, if Pioneer can write them there is *NO* excuse for Sony, NEC and Optorite to have issues. Period.
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Postby melsmed on Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:12 am

I agree with you.
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