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LG-4163b vs. LG-H10N

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LG-4163b vs. LG-H10N

Postby jberry on Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:00 am

Was thinking of changing my 4173b for the H10N....anyone have both to compare? Is the jitter really bad in the H10N ?

Any input is great!!!!
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Postby dodecahedron on Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 pm

the jitter "problem" is only seen when scanning on BenQ drives, not when scanned on Lite-On drives, and i think also i saw one Plextor scan. and by all reports the discs burned by the H10x play fine on all players. so apparently it's OK.

plenty of discussion about this at cdreaks, maybe you should check out their LG forum.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:56 pm

I'm planning a test for some of the media burned in the new LG drive with a CATS analyzer. It should show us a little more about what's going on with the media.
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Postby dodecahedron on Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:15 pm

excellent news.
which drive exactly are you going to use ?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:01 pm

dodecahedron wrote:excellent news.
which drive exactly are you going to use ?


I'm not using any drive. I *WILL* however be stealing Ian's TY and Verbatim media burned for his latest LG DVD Burner review :wink:
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Postby karangguni on Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:35 am

dodecahedron wrote:the jitter "problem" is only seen when scanning on BenQ drives, not when scanned on Lite-On drives, and i think also i saw one Plextor scan. and by all reports the discs burned by the H10x play fine on all players. so apparently it's OK.

plenty of discussion about this at cdreaks, maybe you should check out their LG forum.


Here is a scan of the same disc burned by a H10L scanned by a Lite-On, BenQ and Plextor writer. The Plextor writer wasn't used for a jitter scan, but it does show that the PIE and PIF levels shown by the BenQ are not accurate :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p ... stcount=88

... well, that's about all we have in the absence of a CATS analysis anyway. :)

dolphinius_rex : looking forward to those CATS scans too.
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Postby jberry on Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:44 am

thanks for the input...I checked out cdfreaks and yes there is alot of discussion. The 4163b seems to have been their "best" drive in the past. Given the comments here and elsewhere the H10 seems not to be thought of as well as th 4163b....maybe I will wait on this then.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:35 am

karangguni wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:the jitter "problem" is only seen when scanning on BenQ drives, not when scanned on Lite-On drives, and i think also i saw one Plextor scan. and by all reports the discs burned by the H10x play fine on all players. so apparently it's OK.

plenty of discussion about this at cdreaks, maybe you should check out their LG forum.


Here is a scan of the same disc burned by a H10L scanned by a Lite-On, BenQ and Plextor writer. The Plextor writer wasn't used for a jitter scan, but it does show that the PIE and PIF levels shown by the BenQ are not accurate :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p ... stcount=88

... well, that's about all we have in the absence of a CATS analysis anyway. :)

dolphinius_rex : looking forward to those CATS scans too.


That word "accurate" is dangerous to use... The BenQ is reporting on SOMETHING. You'll notice the jitter spikes perfectly corraspond to the speed changes in the Z-CLV burn graph. The BenQ isn't just randomly skewing results. Also, the PIF results seem to match quite nicely between the Plextor, LiteON, and BenQ drive.
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Postby Ian on Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:40 am

BenQ drives are much more sensitive to jitter than Lite-Ons and Plextors. When there are jitter issues, they tend to magnify the PI/PIF rates. No jitter issues.. the results are usually similar.
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Postby karangguni on Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:48 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:That word "accurate" is dangerous to use... The BenQ is reporting on SOMETHING. You'll notice the jitter spikes perfectly corraspond to the speed changes in the Z-CLV burn graph.


Good point. None of these drives might be reporting accurate results and in any case, what is "accurate" here? If you factor in the error correction ability of the drives, things get compliacted. Hence, the need for CATS analysis. Thanks for pointing that out.

Looks like I need to go back and see if any of those "bad" BenQ scans with the H10x series occurred with 12/16x burns, seeing as those use P-CAV rather than Z-CLV.

dolphinius_rex wrote:The BenQ isn't just randomly skewing results. Also, the PIF results seem to match quite nicely between the Plextor, LiteON, and BenQ drive.


Neither of the other two drives report PIF totals anywhere as high as the BenQ though. The question then is how Plextor's vs Lite-On's reporting of PIF levels on discs burned with other drives compares. I'm wondering if Plextor writers always report higher PIF levels than Lite-On writers when both scan discs. I don't a Plextor drive though, so I can't do tests to find out.

Anyway, the whole issue looks interesting, if complicated :)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:51 pm

karangguni wrote:Neither of the other two drives report PIF totals anywhere as high as the BenQ though. The question then is how Plextor's vs Lite-On's reporting of PIF levels on discs burned with other drives compares. I'm wondering if Plextor writers always report higher PIF levels than Lite-On writers when both scan discs. I don't a Plextor drive though, so I can't do tests to find out.


That's a good point, I hadn't looked at PIF totals. But One thing we don't know is how many samples were taken in each case. At least the software is the same between the BenQ and LiteON, but things might be very different with how sample rates are handled between CDSpeed and Plextools (I don't honestly know, I've never looked into it).

As you say, this whole thing is rather complex!!
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