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are these error rates that horrible

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are these error rates that horrible

Postby liteonrules on Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:34 am

i just bought a "50pk liquid video 2x dvd-r $7.99 OPTODISCK001" RECORDED AT 2X ON NEC 2500A
PI MAX: 320
PIF MAX: 7
Are these that bad enough to take back to store and will these have problems in the future.

RECORDED AT 4X
PI MAX: OVER 1,000
PIF MAX: OVER 500 I know that these are really
NEC 2500A $20 10/04
NEC 3500AG for $47 4/05
NEC 3540 for $35 9/05
BENQ 1620 for $36 9//05
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Postby HotBlack on Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:37 pm

Just want to comment about my experience of that media. This was the first media I bought, same mediacode but sold as "Nashua".
It was horrible!

I dont have complete faith in the measured error rates so I wont comment on them.
Many of my discs were not able to be read back to the hd, so give that a shot with 3-4 discs and you will know if they are ok. Or use Nero CD/DVD Speed.
But if these discs are only half as bad as mine I would not trust them with any important data.
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Re: are these error rates that horrible

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:18 pm

liteonrules wrote:i just bought a "50pk liquid video 2x dvd-r $7.99 OPTODISCK001" RECORDED AT 2X ON NEC 2500A
PI MAX: 320
PIF MAX: 7
Are these that bad enough to take back to store and will these have problems in the future.

RECORDED AT 4X
PI MAX: OVER 1,000
PIF MAX: OVER 500 I know that these are really


Unfortunately, those numbers alone mean very little... and really, a transfer rate test will tell you MUCH more then a K-Probe test anyways.
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not really important stuff but

Postby liteonrules on Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:22 pm

i would like to make back up copies of my movies. i just want to know that if i copy at 2x, I would be fine to keep the backup for a long time.
i just did another scan burnt at 2x and the PI MAX: 302 PIF MAX: 7
NEC 2500A $20 10/04
NEC 3500AG for $47 4/05
NEC 3540 for $35 9/05
BENQ 1620 for $36 9//05
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Postby bob11879 on Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:57 pm

Book spec is maximum 280 for PIE, 4 for PIF. The media is bad. You might be able to read it today, but tomorrow?? Don't put anything valuable on this media.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:03 pm

bob11879 wrote:Book spec is maximum 280 for PIE, 4 for PIF. The media is bad. You might be able to read it today, but tomorrow?? Don't put anything valuable on this media.


If you're going to quote "book specs" then please consider the fact that "book specs" are for use in calibrated equipment. Real world results are drive dependant.

We STILL don't know what drive he's even using for these scans! If this is a Pioneer, then we know NOTHING about the media's performance. If it's a LiteON, then even then we know very little.

A transfer rate test will let you know how well your drive can read the media. If there are no dips or drops, then it's probably fine. As for lifespan, I wouldn't trust Optodisc's earlier media for that. Their 8x media is ok though (to a point).
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby bob11879 on Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:23 pm

I made the assumption that the query from "liteonrules" would mean he was using a LO drive and KP. Silly me!!!

Yes, the actual error rate is truly valid only when using a calibrated tester, but the test program used on that particular disc reflects the error rate it detects on that disc. It gives you a snapshot of media quality for that disc only. Since it is high, you can assume two things, the drive writes crappy on all media, or the drive writes crappy on crappy media (usually the latter). If a disc from another vendor such as Ricoh or Verbatim is read and the results are good, then it confirms the first media is crappy. You do need to do a bit of comparison testing.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:32 pm

bob11879 wrote:I made the assumption that the query from "liteonrules" would mean he was using a LO drive and KP. Silly me!!!

Yes, the actual error rate is truly valid only when using a calibrated tester, but the test program used on that particular disc reflects the error rate it detects on that disc. It gives you a snapshot of media quality for that disc only. Since it is high, you can assume two things, the drive writes crappy on all media, or the drive writes crappy on crappy media (usually the latter). If a disc from another vendor such as Ricoh or Verbatim is read and the results are good, then it confirms the first media is crappy. You do need to do a bit of comparison testing.


And different types of errors are handled differently by different drives... it's not all PIE/PIF/POF you know. Jitter and Assymetry can really mess up how a disc works, and reflectivity also seems to play a part. I've seen some drives that could NOT scan verbatim dye type media with any quality, even when the disc was burned fairly well.

Media testing is almost an art for us amateurs #-o
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Postby liteonrules on Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 pm

bob11879 wrote:I made the assumption that the query from "liteonrules" would mean he was using a LO drive and KP. Silly me!!!

Yes, the actual error rate is truly valid only when using a calibrated tester, but the test program used on that particular disc reflects the error rate it detects on that disc. It gives you a snapshot of media quality for that disc only. Since it is high, you can assume two things, the drive writes crappy on all media, or the drive writes crappy on crappy media (usually the latter). If a disc from another vendor such as Ricoh or Verbatim is read and the results are good, then it confirms the first media is crappy. You do need to do a bit of comparison testing.


i am sorry, i am using LITEON dvd rw to test dvd w/krobe.
NEC 2500A $20 10/04
NEC 3500AG for $47 4/05
NEC 3540 for $35 9/05
BENQ 1620 for $36 9//05
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Postby RJW on Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:39 pm

Yep the results with Verbatim DVD media seems tricky.
However it gets more weird.
Some disc's that use the same pigment do not have this behaviour.
Which make me think was it the dye ???
A bit unlikely but possible since dye is pigment + solvent (+ quenchers)
Or did someone bork up the support for this media. :evil:

No one can give me the info or the answers to that one.

Also you can't compare with AZO cd-r's. Since it might say AZO on both boxes. The AZO versions on DVD are different as the ones used on cd-r's.
(Different chemical composition but some structure groups both have give it the AZO name.)

The results you got are out of standard.
So I wouldn't use this media on this Lite On drive (as a reader) when it comes for storeing data.
Now it becomes more tricky with another reader I might say it's good enough for quick storrage. (we are talking about 3 months max) However these scores are not good enough to me justify any important stuff.

Keep in mind that these older optodisc disc's are not that good supported and quality fluctuates huge (It's Optodisc I know some people over the water can get some good stuff however finding good 4x Optodisc media in Europe is a tricky challenge. )

Manufactuering quality most times is good so from the ageing point of view your quite safe it's just that they should work better from the start.
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