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Are You Upgrading To Windows Vista?

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Are You Upgrading To Windows Vista?

Yes
8
24%
No
9
26%
Eventually
14
41%
Windows sucks.. gimme OS X or Linux
3
9%
 
Total votes : 34

Are You Upgrading To Windows Vista?

Postby Ian on Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:35 pm

With all the hype surrounding Vista, I wanted to see how many of you are actually going to upgrade to the new OS, if you haven't already.
Also, please say why.
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:45 pm

If I can get some version of Linux to do all that I need,
I'll never install Vista.
Otherwise, I'll delay until my XP no longer works.

I see more value in burning a dozen $20 bills for heat on a cold night.

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:57 pm

probably around the end of the year I'll buy a new PC and run Vista on it, but only because I need to be running a current system to keep up with my testing :(
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Postby Grain on Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:34 pm

Unless all the talk claiming that burning/editting video is severely crippled w/ Vista is incorrect, I'll only be going to it on a new machine (probably at least 6 months off, and even then may run XP on it first), keeping XP on at least one rig. Only things that interest me so far about Vista is the "claim" that it doesn't require frequent re-installs to cure the bogging that can plague XP/98etc, and of course DirectX 10 :D .
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:52 pm

Grain wrote:Unless all the talk claiming that burning/editting video is severely crippled w/ Vista is incorrect, I'll only be going to it on a new machine (probably at least 6 months off, and even then may run XP on it first), keeping XP on at least one rig. Only things that interest me so far about Vista is the "claim" that it doesn't require frequent re-installs to cure the bogging that can plague XP/98etc, and of course DirectX 10 :D .

As I understand it, it's not an issue of no requiring frequent reinstalls.
The issue is that one can't reinstall.
So if your hard drive dies, you have to buy another copy.

Outside of that, it's the best thing since sliced bread.

The bogging can eliminated with registry fixers/cleaners.

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Postby Ian on Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:24 pm

CowboySlim wrote:The issue is that one can't reinstall.
So if your hard drive dies, you have to buy another copy.


That's not true. Like XP, Vista looks at various things, including your hardware, when it sends your activation to MS. If your computer configuration hasn't change that much, it will let you activate it again.

Contrary to all the FUD from a few months ago, you can also transfer your Vista licenses from computer to another. As with XP, you'll have to call up MS and get a new code.
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:50 pm

Do we know that a failed hard drive does not constitute a significant hardware change?

Apologies, I guess that I misread that which is in the upper right.
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Postby Ian on Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:57 pm

CowboySlim wrote:Do we know that a failed hard drive does not constitute a significant hardware change?


It has to be a number of changes at once. I think the magic number with Vista is 7. So unless you're changing a bunch of your hardware, you're okay.
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Postby Spazmogen on Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:54 pm

I will not be upgrading to Vista in with in the next 3 years.

There's little in the way of software drivers for it in the next 4 months anyway. But I was happy to see most of my software apps work fine with it.

SP1 is due out later this fall.

I had RTM version of Ultimate installed again. Did it last night, and FDISK'd it this morning. It lasted 12 hours, most of which time I was sleeping. Thankfully I had run Norton Ghost on XP before I installed Vista Ultimate. So I just reverted back to XP after the FDISK.
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Postby CowboySlim on Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:08 am

Ian wrote:
CowboySlim wrote:Do we know that a failed hard drive does not constitute a significant hardware change?


It has to be a number of changes at once. I think the magic number with Vista is 7. So unless you're changing a bunch of your hardware, you're okay.


Well, according to this MSFT gobbledygook from the MSFT staff spokesholes, it looks possible.
But one should certainly not buy an upgrade key.

Nowhere could I find the definition, or boundary, for the hardware change that would constitute a "new" or "second" PC such that you'd have to buy another key.

Same deal with the EULA, kinda' scarce.
Guess you have to go into Fry's, break the plastic,
start to load it on their demo machine to read the EULA........?
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:57 am

I'm not upgrading. I'm with Slim on this one.

BTW, I just reinstalled XP on my main machine. Activation was no problem, but how long will an activation be available after "official support" runs out in 2 years?

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:32 am

Ian wrote:
CowboySlim wrote:Do we know that a failed hard drive does not constitute a significant hardware change?


It has to be a number of changes at once. I think the magic number with Vista is 7. So unless you're changing a bunch of your hardware, you're okay.


If that includes ODD's then you and I are both quite screwed... I might add/change 3-4 ODD's in one week sometimes :P If I happen to add a video card, HDD and processor at the same time, it could look very bad :o
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Postby Ian on Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:53 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:If that includes ODD's then you and I are both quite screwed... I might add/change 3-4 ODD's in one week sometimes :P If I happen to add a video card, HDD and processor at the same time, it could look very bad :o


I don't believe ODD's are one of the things it looks at. It doesn't matter anyway as it has to be X number of changes at once. Not over a week or so.
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Postby JamieW on Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:20 am

Of those people who voted "No," how many of you are not using XP?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:30 pm

JamieW wrote:Of those people who voted "No," how many of you are not using XP?


I'm not using XP, but I put I'd upgrade eventually. I've been holding off as long as possible, but I'll have to "bite the bullet" eventually I know.
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Vista Home Basic - dumbed-down bloatware!

Postby 2Dogs on Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:46 pm

I just played around with a pc with Vista Home Basic on it. It's a low end pc, so not able to take advantage of the Aero Glass eye candy that's supposed to be such a great advance in Vista. (and I think that Home Basic doesn't even have Aero Glass)

What really bugs me about Vista Home basic is that they seem to have dumbed it down to the next level!

Remember Win95 or 98, when you could click "search" and just type in the file name? XP added more keystrokes or mouse clicks to do the same thing. Instead of defaulting to a basic search with advanced options, it made it "better" by prompting you for the kind of search you wanted to do, what drives, what time periods and so on.

Unfortunately Vista seems to have taken that lowest common denominator user approach even further. I found that if you want to copy a file or folder by dragging it in the equivalent of explorer, you can't simply drag it and let go - you are now prompted for what action you wish to execute. So, more unnecessary keystrokes and mouseclicks.

Added up collectively in the known universe, there will be millions of hours wasted and increased repetitive stress injuries in the workforce!

I'd be surprised if the same annoyances weren't present in the premium Vista variants.

On the pc I tested, there was 28GB taken up on the drive just with Vista and the usual pre-installed software. Outrageous! Compare with less than 3GB on my work notebook system partition, with XP SP2 and Office suite, CAD, graphics and video editing and structural analysis software.

It may be just a driver issue, but some games run more slowly under Vista than XP. I for one will not consider "upgrading" to this bloatware until I am forced to do so by software incompatibility issues.
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Postby CowboySlim on Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:48 pm

Ian wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:If that includes ODD's then you and I are both quite screwed... I might add/change 3-4 ODD's in one week sometimes :P If I happen to add a video card, HDD and processor at the same time, it could look very bad :o


I don't believe ODD's are one of the things it looks at. It doesn't matter anyway as it has to be X number of changes at once. Not over a week or so.

I did find the EULA for the (retail) version. It does not say "..X number.." and give a value for the X.

It does say "...some change...." So it is totally undefined.

Now this did happen to me with XP. I disconnected one hard drive and restored an OS image to the connected hard drive.
When I rebooted, without reconnecting, into the restored OS, it told me that due to a hardware change (which was one less hard drive)
that I had to reactivate.

But no big deal, the guy in Bangalore answered the phone and gave me the 55 digit number to get me going again.
Now, if my hard drive fails in two years from now, after XP support as ceased, and the guy in Bangalore is now selling curry on the street and not there to answer my call, I guess that I am SOL. :(

OK, so that is how it is with XP and what does that mean with respect to Vista?
Well, you can't tell because they won't tell.
All they say is "...some...", whatever that is?
So, all I can do is speculate in the absence of a definitve policy.
Which speculation is taken from all other things known about Vista,
which is that it is much more stringent than XP regarding that which customers may do.
Perhaps "...some..." means changing a Floppy and you're SOL - time to buy a new license?

Note: With XP I have never had to reactivate after changing an optical.
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Postby Ian on Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:52 pm

Here's the best info I've found on hardware changes and activation. Surprisingly, it comes from my university.

http://kb.wisc.edu/m/page.php?id=5294

Activation Hardware Tolerance
In much the same way the Windows XP Windows Product Activation functions, a MAK activation key must be renewed if significant hardware changes occur. As hardware changes occur, Windows Vista tracks each change, using a weighted score to accumulate changes made. If a cumulative score reaches 25, the computer is considered out of tolerance and must be activated with a MAK. Table 3 lists hardware components and their relative weight.
Table 3. Activation Hardware Tolerances
Component class name Weight
CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD-ROM 1
Display adapter 1
RAM amount range (for example, 0–512 MB, 512 MB–1 GB, 2–4 GB) 1
Audio adapter 2
Network adapter Media Access Control (MAC) address 2
Small computer system interface (SCSI) adapter 2
Integrated device electronics (IDE) adapter 3
Processor 3
BIOS identification (0 always matches) 9
Physical operating system hard drive device serial number 11


This applies to MAK activations but I can't imagine that the retail version of Vista is any different.
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Postby CowboySlim on Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:25 pm

OK, now that IS definitive. :D

Now I know why I didn't have to reactivate when I added memory, added a video card and added/changed optical drives.

Furthermore, it explains why I had to call Bangalore when I upgraded CPU and motherboard and when I restored to a different hard drive configuration.
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Postby smartin4 on Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:04 pm

Ian wrote:Here's the best info I've found on hardware changes and activation. Surprisingly, it comes from my university.

http://kb.wisc.edu/m/page.php?id=5294

Activation Hardware Tolerance
In much the same way the Windows XP Windows Product Activation functions, a MAK activation key must be renewed if significant hardware changes occur. As hardware changes occur, Windows Vista tracks each change, using a weighted score to accumulate changes made. If a cumulative score reaches 25, the computer is considered out of tolerance and must be activated with a MAK. Table 3 lists hardware components and their relative weight.
Table 3. Activation Hardware Tolerances
Component class name Weight
CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD-ROM 1
Display adapter 1
RAM amount range (for example, 0–512 MB, 512 MB–1 GB, 2–4 GB) 1
Audio adapter 2
Network adapter Media Access Control (MAC) address 2
Small computer system interface (SCSI) adapter 2
Integrated device electronics (IDE) adapter 3
Processor 3
BIOS identification (0 always matches) 9
Physical operating system hard drive device serial number 11


This applies to MAK activations but I can't imagine that the retail version of Vista is any different.



Question, what exactly is a MAK? Is it a new activation code? Is it free, or is M$ looking to charge you for it?

Hypothetical situation, you have a pc at home and you took out a 2nd mortgage to pay for M$'s new overhyped, bloated OS. You are running for about 2 weeks and your pc takes a surge that fries the CPU, RAM, mobo (with integrated NIC), & hd. Is M$ going to tell you that you need to pay for a new license or activation code because you have exceeded their "quota" for hardware points?

I would be curious to find out if it is really legal, would it hold up in court, for them to be doing restrictive things like this. If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that the EU is already looking into whether or not this EULA is against the laws over there, laws that were put on the books largely due to the whole MS IE fiasco a few years back.
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Postby Ian on Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:52 pm

smartin4 wrote:Question, what exactly is a MAK? Is it a new activation code? Is it free, or is M$ looking to charge you for it?

Hypothetical situation, you have a pc at home and you took out a 2nd mortgage to pay for M$'s new overhyped, bloated OS. You are running for about 2 weeks and your pc takes a surge that fries the CPU, RAM, mobo (with integrated NIC), & hd. Is M$ going to tell you that you need to pay for a new license or activation code because you have exceeded their "quota" for hardware points?


A MAK is a Multiple Activation Key. It's used for Microsoft's Volume Activation. Essentially, you can use the same key to activate multiple copies of Vista Business or Enterprise. If you're buying a retail copy of Vista, its one key per license.

According to MS's EULA, you can transfer the license from one PC to another, at least once. In this case though, I can't imagine that they would count it against you.

If you're buying a copy of Vista with your computer, it is activated by the OEM. From what I can gather, you can install these bundled versions as many times as you want on that computer.
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Postby stix on Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:12 am

I'm not going to go to Vista anytime soon. XP works fine for me, so why spend 150 bucks to upgrade to Vista home premium version? (Forget about Vista home basic version). Microsoft already has enough of my money. There's a load of hype about Vista, but most of us probably don't need it.

What are the corporate and academic sectors doing, upgrading or waiting?
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Postby Ian on Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:07 am

stix wrote:What are the corporate and academic sectors doing, upgrading or waiting?


I'm not sure about the corporate sector, but in the academic world, we're looking at the summer of 2008 at the earliest.. and we're usually one of the first to mass roll outs of new OS's.
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Postby smartin4 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:14 am

Ian wrote:
If you're buying a copy of Vista with your computer, it is activated by the OEM. From what I can gather, you can install these bundled versions as many times as you want on that computer.


That would be similar to the XP copies we get when we buy from Dell, most of the time it never asks you for the key code, but if you attempt to install the os from the Dell supplied cd to a non-Dell pc, you are asked to activate the software.

I would assume that that feature is either built into the install, or there is something on the utility partition that comes on all Dell pcs that tells the os install that it doesn't need the code for the install.
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Postby socheat on Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:49 pm

Goooo Linux! :)
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