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So CD-R Audio media is meant to prevent copying a copy....

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So CD-R Audio media is meant to prevent copying a copy....

Postby ph349397 on Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:20 pm

So let me get this straight, standalone CD burners, such as one in a stereo shelf system, are designed to only recognize CD-R Audio media. The only difference between CD-R Audio media and a "data" CD-R is that the Audio CD-R's have a pre-burned portion that identify them as CD-R Audio. Does that mean that a standalone CD burner will not copy FROM a CD-R Audio, as to force the public to only copy from an original "master" CD (i.e. people can't make a copy of the new Celine Dion, then pass the copy to a friend who will in turn make a copy of the copy). This would be similar to how the minidisc format prevents people from doing direct, digital copying from MD to MD. Am I right about this?
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Postby ph349397 on Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:37 pm

I'm asking this purely out of curiosity, as to understand WHY CD-R Audio media exists despite the fact that they aren't physically any different than data CD-R's. I'm an engineer, and it's nice to understand this kind of stuff. :)
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Postby cfitz on Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:08 pm

I don't know if it prevents a copy of a copy. I suppose it very well might, but I can't say for sure since I don't own one. I do know that the RIAA gets a piece of the selling price for every audio CD-R sold, to be redistributed to the media conglomerates that produce so many of today's artists. Their presumption is that the disc will be used for piracy, so they levy a license fee on the media to compensate themselves. That's why they set it up so you can't burn a regular CD in a consumer grade audio burner - the regular CD's don't have the levy attached, so the RIAA wouldn't get any cut from their sales.

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Postby Han on Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:45 pm

Well, I heard some standalone CD Audio Recorders can be fooled to record music to an ordinary (data) CD-R disc. You let it check the ATIP of an Audio CDR but just before actual burning begins you switch the disc for an ordinary one...

As for Audio CDR copy protection: there isn't any. If such a disc can't be copied on the fly, you can always rip tracks by a special program, like Exact Audio Copy.
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Postby cfitz on Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:55 pm

Han wrote:As for Audio CDR copy protection: there isn't any. If such a disc can't be copied on the fly, you can always rip tracks by a special program, like Exact Audio Copy.

I think ph349397's question, and I know my answer, was directed towards stand-alone consumer grade stereo component burners, not PC burners. So the programs such as EAC, Feurio, CloneCD, Alcohol 120% aren't relevant to this particular question. The stand-alone burners have at least the ability to implement copy-of-copy protection in a non-defeatable manner since their software can't be changed by the user.

As to the broader question of copy protection on audio CD's, what about Cactus Data Shield, Key2Audio, SafeAudio, etc.? Are you saying EAC can handle these? I don't believe that is the case, although I think CloneCD and Alcohol 120% can. I have no personal experience.

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Postby Han on Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:54 am

I have no personal experience with stand-alone consumer grade stereo component burners. I do know you can burn tracks in Track-At-Once mode, since there's really no other way to make a desired compilation. Once I've got such Audio CDR, recorded in TAO mode, and had quite a few problems reading it in my computer CD-ROM drive. Some of the tracks were simply inaccessable by the usual players and rippers. I'm sure disc was not copy protected, but the way it was recorded caused problems in playback and audio extraction...

You can beat real copy protections such as Cactus Data Shield, Key2Audio, SafeAudio, etc. only with a proper drive. Programs like EAC help a little, but it's eventually in the drive's precision mechanics, chipset and firmware to read protected discs.
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