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BAD BAD Maxell DVD-R's from Futureshop

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BAD BAD Maxell DVD-R's from Futureshop

Postby grouch on Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:19 pm

I bought the 100 pack of Maxell DVD-R's from Futureshop for 34.99+tax.
These are made in taiwan and state 8x writing speed.

Their media code is RITEK G05.
Using NEC 3520 (firmware LD 2.U1 and flashed to 3.04 as well)
The Disc Quality scans using Nero CD-DVD Speed never get past 50, no matter what speed i burn it at (12x, 8x, 4x)

Using LG 4082 (A208) at 4x
the scans still report major errors

just letting everyone know, this media is cheap in price and well as quality...
nothing like the made in japan MXL RG03's, which burned flawless
made in taiwan and made in japan make a BIG difference.
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Postby Gen-An on Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:59 pm

For some retarded reason Maxell has decided to switch to Ritek for supplying the bulk of its 8x media in the US/Canada/European markets instead of the Hitachi-Maxell media it was using before. It seems if you want true Maxell media you have to buy the inkjet printable discs. However no such plans have been made for the Japanese market. Hmm, Maxell hogging the good media for its home country...
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Postby Scour on Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:09 pm

Hello!

My 4082 burned Ritek G05 (Platinum branded) without problems, but not faster than 4x.

At Cdfreaks is a big discussion about G05, seems to be there a some different batches out there
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:39 pm

Gen-An wrote:For some retarded reason Maxell has decided to switch to Ritek for supplying the bulk of its 8x media in the US/Canada/European markets instead of the Hitachi-Maxell media it was using before. It seems if you want true Maxell media you have to buy the inkjet printable discs. However no such plans have been made for the Japanese market. Hmm, Maxell hogging the good media for its home country...


It's easy to call it a "retarded reason" when you know absolutely nothing behind WHY it's happening :roll:

So, I'll fill in a few blanks for you, and then perhaps you can decide whether or not it's truely "retarded" as you put it :wink:

The number one thing causing problems right now is a lack of stock. Maxell has 1 plant, and it's relatively small compared to many other plants. The biggest seller in North America right now is 8x DVDR media for Maxell, but actually most of Maxell's production has switched to 16x (like many plants have been slowly making the switch to). So not only is there a VERY high demend for 8x media, but there is almost no supply of it left from Maxell's own manufacturing plant. This makes North American, and even European supply impossible. Also, even if there was more production happening, the pricing in North America (specifically Canada) is *SO* low, that it's far below Maxell's own cost to manufacture it! So they are stuck with having to outsource production of Maxell 8x DVDR brand media.

Now, regarding the quality of Maxell's newly outsourced 8x DVDRs... I've been aware of the problem for at least a month now, if not maybe even 2. I made a full report of this problem to Maxell directly, and they promised to look into it (although I heard nothing back). Now, in the last few weeks, I've been *VERY* lucky to be able to meet with a good portion of Maxell Canada's staff, including the head of Western Sales, the General Manager of Maxell Canada, and the head of Maxell's marketing department (among others). The meetings took quite some time and popsicles, but once all the main issues had been discussed, I took the time to pull the most important members aside, and bring up my results to them again, and ask for an update. What they told me, includes both my above stock issues comments, and the following:

Due to Maxell's inability to create a large enough volume of media for sale in North America (among other places), Maxell has had to outsource production to another plant. Maxell specifically qualifies the media from the plants it outsources to, to make sure they meet a minimum standard for their brand. They even went so far as to admit to me it was not as good quality as their own Japanese media, but should be still quite good. At this time, they also told me that Ritek was currently the only plant qualified for their media, but that Taiyo Yuden, and another plant have already been tapped, and are on the way to receiving their qualifications.

I then asked about the quality problems with their current outsourcing to Ritek, and asked how it was possible that Ritek could have beaten Taiyo Yuden when it came to qualifying media quality? I didn't get a great answer on this one, it basically came down to "I don't know, I don't have all the details". One thing I *was* told is that the problems I reported way back when, were sent to head office in Japan, and Maxell is NOT happy with Ritek sending one quality of media for their tests, and saturating the finished product with lower grade Ritek then most other brands receive (according to reports on the media). I don't know what Maxell said to Ritek, but I got the distinct impression that it was not very pleasent... something similar to rubbing a dog's nose in it's own urine when it makes a mistake on the rug, or something like that. A was also told that my report on the quality issues pushed Maxell to begin seriously thinking about replacing Ritek, and significantly hastened the search for new OEM's.

So, while nothing happens immediately in a large company like Maxell, I'm happy to say that new things are in the works... and if we are VERY lucky, we may even see Taiyo Yuden media replace Ritek at later dates.

Furthermore, I'll keep track of all the negative comments, and make sure to mention it to Maxell next time the oppurtunity comes up.
Last edited by dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scour on Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:05 pm

Hello!

Ritek is the only brand that have the quality? At the moment I prefer Prodisc and CMC because I´m unhappy with Ritek R03.

I think that Ritek makes a very good price. Fuji changed from TY to Ritek, but not because of the quality, because of the price.
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Postby Gen-An on Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:12 pm

Dolph, do you have any idea how Taiyo Yuden is able to keep up with demand so well when other manufacturers with plants in Japan (Maxell, TDK) cannot? When I think of all the OEM TY discs in all the major geographical markets (Japan/Asia, US/Canada, Europe) it's mindboggling that TY can handle the demand.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:48 pm

Gen-An wrote:Dolph, do you have any idea how Taiyo Yuden is able to keep up with demand so well when other manufacturers with plants in Japan (Maxell, TDK) cannot? When I think of all the OEM TY discs in all the major geographical markets (Japan/Asia, US/Canada, Europe) it's mindboggling that TY can handle the demand.


Well, as far as I'm aware, Taiyo Yuden is MUCH bigger then Maxell when it comes to optical media manufacturing. Keep in mind that Maxell's main product lines are actually tape stock based, whereas Taiyo Yuden has numerous plastic based products aside from CDRs and DVDRs. But as for how many lines either one has specifically, I have no idea. Perhaps RJW will be able to answer that one?

Also, TY is having volume issues of their own too... every plant is. Maxell, Ritek, Fuji, Prodisc, Sony, Daxon, Optodisc, Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden.... all of them are having a horrible time meeting with demand. Ritek, Prodisc and Optodisc have all raised their prices on media too (Ritek and Prodisc have raised their prices a LOT).

I left CMC out of the above list, since I'm not sure how they are doing production wise. They are the biggest manufacturer of media, so they MIGHT be having less problems. I don't really know.
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Postby RJW on Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:06 am

Let me say this it's all about money.
With the current market conditions brands like maxell will sell ritek.
Why did ritek get the job well it's not about quality alone it's also about priceing !!
Just deliver the minimum requested quality for a competitive price and it's no secret that Ritek can produce much cheaper as TY.

Also people don't forget that maxell own media is still sold through japanese premium brands. Again because in the end it's more profitable.

Now about Maxell saying that our own product is better but the own product is still good, that's really a manager answer It's something you will hear in most cases these days and in most cases it's the truth.

Also, TY is having volume issues of their own too... every plant is. Maxell, Ritek, Fuji, Prodisc, Sony, Daxon, Optodisc, Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden.... all of them are having a horrible time meeting with demand. Ritek, Prodisc and Optodisc have all raised their prices on media too (Ritek and Prodisc have raised their prices a LOT).

The raiseing of prices was allready announced ealier and has not to do with capacity alone but also the raw materials that are required for production.
FUJI hasn't got problems with volumes. FUJI mostly makes cd-r's themselves. But if Fuji has problems with DVD recordables then you can say that there manufacturers CMC/ RITEK or Prodisc can't keep up.
Also Ritek/Prodisc claim to OEM's that they still have capacity left. So I don't know how correct it is to name these 2 and Ritek has even slightly proofed it.
Also MBIL and infomedia and CMC with some limitations can still produce higher volumes.
WHy do you think quite some brands(Includeing A-brands, Like TDK, Philips ) moved to MBIL. Also MBIL is produceing more for Verbatim again includeing 16x MCC004.
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MBIL

Postby Francksoy on Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:08 am

Most interesting, thanks for "filling the blanks" ;)

"MBIL "> I suppose this stands for "Moser Baer India"?
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Postby RJW on Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:55 am

Moser Baer India Limited - To be complete :D
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MBIL

Postby Francksoy on Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:11 pm

Thanks RJW :-)

So there seems to be as many variations in G05 discs sold under the Maxell brand than in ones sold under other brands: my own 50-pack of G05 Maxells, purchased in Luxembourg, give excellent results. I then assumed that Maxell had a strong control over Ritek, which seems to not be the case by reading this thread and some others at CDFreaks.

Ritek is totally ruining its reputation with all these quality control problems with G05 production, ending in so many different grades available. Same happened last year with G04 discs.

Furthermore, it induces senseless and endless arguing between DVD enthousiasts, because some RitekG05 users have used the good stuff and are convinced that those who used the bad stuff are delusional (user error, burner incompatibility, whatever) and same thing the other way round, those who used the bad stuff are convinced that those who used the good stuff only try to defend the media they use or are mindless newbies. *LOL*
:roll:

Maybe you'll be interested in reading the thread at CDFreaks where I had a quite hot argument with someone who claims that all bad reports about G05 are from people who don't know how to use/stock medias...
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?p=1077563#post1077563

And a summary of my own experience with G05 discs from different brands and sources
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?p=1078643#post1078643

Cheers from Belgium :)

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:44 pm

RJW wrote:FUJI hasn't got problems with volumes. FUJI mostly makes cd-r's themselves. But if Fuji has problems with DVD recordables then you can say that there manufacturers CMC/ RITEK or Prodisc can't keep up.
Also Ritek/Prodisc claim to OEM's that they still have capacity left. So I don't know how correct it is to name these 2 and Ritek has even slightly proofed it.
Also MBIL and infomedia and CMC with some limitations can still produce higher volumes.
WHy do you think quite some brands(Includeing A-brands, Like TDK, Philips ) moved to MBIL. Also MBIL is produceing more for Verbatim again includeing 16x MCC004.


When I mentioned Fuji, I was meaning as a brand name, not a manufacturer. To that extent, Futureshop / Bestbuy here in North America is having a HORRIBLE time getting stock from any of Maxell, Sony, or Fuji, and is attempting to rotate their sales between the 3 of them, but stock problems are putting that to rest.

I also know that many of my friends in the inddustry, who for some reason still sell both Ritek and Prodisc, are having HORRIBLE times getting either from both companies.

As for MBIL, they've been ignored by many for a long time... it's only fair they get a chance to shine finally :D
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:43 pm

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing your insight to what's happening in the industry. You guys, esp. RJW and D_R, have access to information that the rest of us don't- we can only gain from that.

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:00 pm

MediumRare wrote:This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing your insight to what's happening in the industry. You guys, esp. RJW and D_R, have access to information that the rest of us don't- we can only gain from that.

G


The trick to it is having information that these companies need, and doing trades :wink: Although quite honestly, RJW's sources and information make my efforts look juvenile :o
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Postby RJW on Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:39 pm

As for MBIL, they've been ignored by many for a long time... it's only fair they get a chance to shine finally :D

Well don't forget that MBIL has solved there mayor issues just up to a few months ago. However they still have some problems makeing 16x media.
8x is fine !!
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Postby seaegg on Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:46 am

I got burnt by that deal as well thought I'd be getting something other than Ritek G05s. I've so far gotten 95 & 96% quality scans using Pio 109 & the BenQ 1640 but the total PIFs & PIEs are so high in proportion to say Verbatims & TYs it's not funny. I had also gotten 100 Maxell 4x DVD+Rs that were Ricohs which burn pretty good so at least those weren't too bad. I'll probably try and offload as many of the Maxell -Rs as I can at probably 20c a pop to some of my buddies that have older burners.
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Re: MBIL

Postby RJW on Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:38 am

Francksoy wrote:
Ritek is totally ruining its reputation with all these quality control problems with G05 production, ending in so many different grades available. Same happened last year with G04 discs.


Nothing new here. Ritek allready had this with cd-r's.
Remember the huge variation with Philips 16x. A disc which is supposed to be Grade A ritek. Now that disc was in some europeans magazine tests very close to being a winner while in other tests it scored very low.
Ritek allways seem to have had some variation in quality.
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Postby Scour on Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:19 am

RJW wrote:
Now about Maxell saying that our own product is better but the own product is still good, that's really a manager answer It's something you will hear in most cases these days and in most cases it's the truth.

[\quote]

Maxell only manufacture in Japan, right? When I see Maxell-media made in Japan is it sure original Maxell?


RJW wrote:FUJI hasn't got problems with volumes. FUJI mostly makes cd-r's themselves.


I thought Fuji only have OEM-media? My newer Fuji 48x are from Ritek and TY
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Postby RJW on Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:29 am

Scour wrote:
RJW wrote:
Now about Maxell saying that our own product is better but the own product is still good, that's really a manager answer It's something you will hear in most cases these days and in most cases it's the truth.



Maxell only manufacture in Japan, right? When I see Maxell-media made in Japan is it sure original Maxell?

4x can also be TY but 8x no TY according maxell words see the above lines for the official maxell answer. :D
RJW wrote:FUJI hasn't got problems with volumes. FUJI mostly makes cd-r's themselves.


I thought Fuji only have OEM-media? My newer Fuji 48x are from Ritek and TY


Do I have to say FUJI jewelcase/slimcase which states up to 52x and states made in Germanny.
Or the FUJI digital photo disc's (or what the thingies are called.) which state made in germany.
Both products are supposed to be for european market only and is made at the plant in Kleve (germanny ) not that far from the Dutch border.
Seeing your location Germanny you should be able to get these. Notice that all spindled media is OEM.
Quality of FUJI's own media is quite good I have used the normal disc's in quite some different versions (40x,52x,24x) also this media has won quite some tests in europe.

Image
http://www.cdrwinkel.com/CDDigitaPhotos.pdf
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Postby Scour on Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:09 pm

RJW wrote:
Do I have to say FUJI jewelcase/slimcase which states up to 52x and states made in Germanny.
Or the FUJI digital photo disc's (or what the thingies are called.) which state made in germany.
Both products are supposed to be for european market only and is made at the plant in Kleve (germanny ) not that far from the Dutch border.
Seeing your location Germanny you should be able to get these. Notice that all spindled media is OEM.
Quality of FUJI's own media is quite good I have used the normal disc's in quite some different versions (40x,52x,24x) also this media has won quite some tests in europe.

Image
http://www.cdrwinkel.com/CDDigitaPhotos.pdf


Thanks :)

Next time I will look for the Fuji-media in Jewelcases
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Postby RJW on Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:37 pm

Reading back I might have made things a little confuseing the normal media of FUJI was the one which was tested.
(Quite nice stuff burns better with my Lite On as Taiyo Yuden at speeds higher as 16x.)
This one looks like
Image
Slimline
Image
jewelcase

Haven't seen test restults for the black photo disc's so far and haven't used these myself so far (Quite expensive cd-r's (At least 6 euro's for a ten pack !)
This product is relatively new so it's not that weird that there are no results yet available.
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Postby Scour on Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:46 pm

Hello!

A question about Maxell:

I saw a good price for Maxell 8x-media, the shop wrote it´s made in Japan. What is the better media, DVD-R or DVD+R? My current writer is the LG 4082, but soon I will buy a Pioneer, Benq or LG 16x-writer.
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Postby Scour on Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:29 am

Hello!

I had buy Maxell DVD-R 8x and DVD+R 8x. I ask the shop about Made in ... and they answer it´s made in Japan.

Now I read the DVD+R out with DVDIdentifier and got this:

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RITEK-R03-002]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [RITEK]
Media Type ID : [R03]
Product Revision : [002]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have posted a pic of the DVD-R (+R was to torn to post), here can I read made in Japan. And it was written something from maxell UK.
At the package from the +R only something is written from Maxell UK, but no made in ....

Is that +R-media from a british Ritek-factory?

Anyone knows whether this media is better than the other R03?

Thanks
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Postby RJW on Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:56 am

Scour wrote:Hello!

Now I read the DVD+R out with DVDIdentifier and got this:

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RITEK-R03-002]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [RITEK]
Media Type ID : [R03]
Product Revision : [002]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like Ritek.

Is that +R-media from a british Ritek-factory?

Not so likely still I could verify it but on the info so far I suggest highly unlikely.

So are the -R disc's still maxell or did they also mispackage these ?
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Postby Scour on Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:09 pm

RJW wrote:So are the -R disc's still maxell or did they also mispackage these ?


DVD-R is Maxell:

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:MXL RG03]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Hitachi Maxell Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [MXL RG03]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4.71 GB (4.38 GiB)]

What makes me :evil: is, that there´s no "Made in..." at the +R, only the address from Maxell UK. And this address is also on the -R, but here´s the "made in Japan" below the UK-Address
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