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Best burner & media for ultimate longevity? (DVD or CD-R

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Best burner & media for ultimate longevity? (DVD or CD-R

Postby loopy on Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:52 pm

hi all,

new here and hope this is as good a place as any to ask this question:

In terms of media longevity, what are the best burner/media combinations for:

a) CD-R (which if I read the NIST report right has the longest longevity)

and

b) DVD (of any flavor - not really up to speed on what is good)

Reason I ask is this: I have a lot of old photos I want to scan and put on CD's or DVD's (understanding the storage capacity differences of course) and want something that will not "disappear" in a couple of years. I don't mind buying good media or a good burner, and cost is (within reason) not terribly important (nor is speed, although something reasonably quick is a bonus). I plan to store them properly (out of the light, in cases, in a temperature controlled/home environment)

So what is the hot set-up for maximum archival performance?

Thanks for any advice!

:)

(ETA: This will be for a new build machine - looking at the Plextor, Samsung & NEC DVD drives, although if there is an outstanding CD burner, could put it & a DVD writer in the system. Thanks again!
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Postby Justin42 on Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:15 pm

Everything I have read is that Taiyo Yuden CDRs are probably still better for longevity (if it's ultra-critical important) than ANY DVDR would be. A good quality DVD burner should burn CDs ok; you might want to try to hunt down a Plextor Premium CDRW drive (discontinued in the US; the Premium 2 exists in Japan and Europe) for the best possible CD burning.

I've always heard the NEC DVD drives are good at CDs. The Samsungs look promising but I've heard issues; not sure if some more firmware updates will fix it. I'd check out the LG H10 series for a DVD burner, I really like my H10L (but have never burned a CD in it). The H22L is somewhat disappointing in my experience (the H10/H20 series are 'parallel' LG units using totally different chipsets; they are both current lines) Plextor tends to be overpriced right now for the quality they provide. (i.e., you can probably find just as good of a DVD burner for 1/2-1/3 the price)

The Pioneer 111/A11 models would probably be pretty good all around, as well.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:31 pm

Nothing wrong with the LG GSA-H22L as long as you don't use DVD-R media. It burns DVD+R media really REALLY well :wink:

But yeah, the Pioneer DVR-111D is a really excellent all around burner.
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Postby Grain on Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:10 pm

The LG H22N does a very nice job of -R's, doesn't like Prodisc Verbatim's though.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:32 pm

Grain wrote:The LG H22N does a very nice job of -R's, doesn't like Prodisc Verbatim's though.


Or CMC Verbatim... or Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-Rs....

I've tried 3 flavours of Prodisc 8x DVD-R Verbatim brand media, and 1 flavour of CMC 16x DVD-R Verbatim brand media. None of it was pretty. (and much of it had POF errors showing up!)
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Postby Grain on Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:28 pm

Thats strange Dolph, mine does a sharp job on CMC 16X Verbs, also with TYG02's, both posted here (LG GSA H22N post), although the CMC pics aren't showing up anymore? Will have to dig into that. It also does a nice job with Maxells DVD-DSS Pro Series. I don't use TYG03's anymore, and I've also given up on all Prodisc Verbs except for testing (ie got to use up what I got somehow!) I too get horrific amounts of POF's with Prodisc & the LG, however they fail to burn completely on my BenQ 1650. Sent a lot back to Verbatim for warranty(Prodisc), which they replaced with more Prodiscs [-X . Won't waist the postage on the rest.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:38 pm

Oops, didn't notice the N on your drive compared to the L on mine. So that may be the reason behind the quality differences :wink:

I'll try to post some scans later on tonight.
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Postby Justin42 on Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:55 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Nothing wrong with the LG GSA-H22L as long as you don't use DVD-R media. It burns DVD+R media really REALLY well :wink:

But yeah, the Pioneer DVR-111D is a really excellent all around burner.


I still think the H10L is a much better drive than the H22L. I am tentatively keeping my H22L, hoping that a firmware update fixes some of the weirder issues. (but yeah, it LOOOOVES CMC-made Verbatim DVD+Rs!)
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Postby loopy on Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 am

I've also been looking at a few articles on media longevity, any thoughts?

http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_dvd/ ... bility.htm

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwog/S ... yStudy.pdf

http://www.uni-muenster.de/Forum-Bestan ... /iraci.pdf

the last seems to show pthalocyanine dye CD-R's as being the best (but of course with much less capacity than DVD) with double-sided single layer DVD's being the best in their class. Taiyo Yudens were not identified (as to dye type)

Bunch of stuff to absorb and still trying to sort it out...
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:48 pm

loopy wrote:I've also been looking at a few articles on media longevity, any thoughts?

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwog/S ... yStudy.pdf


This is a good basic study.... but it fails to give enough data about the individual samples. Through understanding of the products, and a little begging, I am fairly confident about the following:

S1 + S3 are Verbatim/Mitsubishi, or Verbatim/Mitsubishi OEMs. Only Kodak and Verbatim/Mitsubishi really ever used Azo, so it really limits the options.

S4 is a Kodak Ultima Gold CD-R. (This one I learned from begging). Unfortunately, the chances of finding any of this media now a days is next to impossible as Kodak hasn't *MADE* media for a very long time (and current Kodak media is outsourced crap).

S5 is Taiyo Yuden. This is an educated guess on my part, but I'm fairly confident in it.

Either S6 or S7 or both were manufactured by Mitsui (pre-MAM-A and MAM-E and CSI!!!).

Unfortunately, most of the media used in this study is no longer available. And the media that *IS* available is well known for having gone down hill (in the case of Mitsui/MAM-A/E quite dramatically) in quality. In other words, it's a great study, but we need it to be re-done with modern media samples, and with a little more descriptive information.


This one I'm less impressed with. The media is even older and less available, and the results are displayed in such a way that it makes the whole thing useless. I don't think there is one piece of information worth taking away from this PDF unfortunately.

loopy wrote:the last seems to show pthalocyanine dye CD-R's as being the best (but of course with much less capacity than DVD) with double-sided single layer DVD's being the best in their class. Taiyo Yudens were not identified (as to dye type).


The thing you need to remember is that the dye itself is only 1 small part of the manufacturing process. In a lot of cases, it's a lot MORE important to have good quality control. For instance, Ritek's Cyanine based CD-Rs were utter crap! but Taiyo Yuden's Cyanine based CD-Rs are quite excellent. Mitsui's Phthalocyanine CD-Rs were quite good (before they were bought out by CSI and everything fell apart), but DST's Phthalocyanine CD-Rs were horrible.

So Dye alone won't tell you anything really.
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Postby loopy on Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:28 pm

The Iraci report was published a year ago, although the tests may have been run earlier (how long before is unknown) but agree that tests with current media would help. That being said, in general the dye was a good predictor of longevity, which is what I am after (more so than resistance to harsh environments). Both (I think) are different animals than initial burn quality. I'll have to poke around and see what older CDR media I have - that may be the good stuff!!!

(ETA: I guess my question then distills down to: what burners give the best initial quality and what media survives the longest. FWIW, I am building a new system, and will probably put two optical drives in it - so one for the best CD burn quality and one for the best DVD quality would be doable. Hard part is to figure out which ones to choose... cost per drive (as long as we are not talking blu-ray) is not a priority. Say under $150 each, tops, what are the best CD & DVD burners out there?

Projected system is: (self-serving hijack alert! - my post from a general forum)

Case: (already have but not wedded to) Antec Solo

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=18500

Power Supply: (also have, but can upgrade if need be) Antec True Power 430

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=22430

Processor: Core2 Duo E6600 2.4 GHz

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819115003

Motherboard: Intel 975X - don't plan on overclocking (much anyway) and want something that is stable and sets up easily.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813121016

Memory: 2GB of something good - kind of lost here with all the latency specs and stuff. Maybe something like this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16820220144

Vid Card: Leaning towards an eVGA GeForce 7950GT (512MB), would like a Quadro but not sure if I can justify the extra vcost for only occasional CAD use. Not sure if the overclocked one is worth the extra $. At some point will want to drive two LCD's or one big one. Open to suggestions.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produ...ductCode=322836

HD: Torn between two drives here, the WD 150G Raptor and 500G Caviar. Mulling over going for RAID (1) for protection against crashes. If I read things right, the Caviar is 3.0 GB/s while the faster Raptor has a slower transfer of 1.5 GB/s. To complicate things, the Intel board uses different controllers for 1.5 & 3.0 GB SATA. Bottom line is I'm not sure which would wind up being faster (though I think it would still be the Raptor), but if it's close the capacity and lower noise of the Caviar might win out. Both are about $200 (OEM) so it's a horse race...

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/prod...asp?language=en

DVD burner: another area where I have been out of the loop and need help: In the old days would go for a Plextor, but now they are a bunch more expensive than NEC, Samsung, Pioneer... is the Plex 760 the hot setup? Should I go for the SATA 755? Main goal here is no coasters (speed is secondary)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16827249006

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16827249003

http://www.newegg.com/product/Produ...N82E16827129001

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16827151136

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16827152076

Displays - will limp along on the current LCD (Viewsonic 1912) until the bank account recovers If prices drop would love to go for dual 19's or maybe a 24".

CPU fan - no idea here, maybe something like this? (not sure if it will fit)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16835118223



So anyway that means I can use either IDE or SATA optical drives... also open to any advice there [/end hijack]
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