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black cd-r, better or worse?

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black cd-r, better or worse?

Postby jtan on Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:02 am

hi there,

i had a discussion of black cd-r in our local forum several months ago and it was concluded that black cd-r are better because they have better reflectivity. but just two days ago i burn lots of black cd-r, 95 in all and it turned out that lots of them have bad playability on players.

the same prodisc brand but different dye color have no problems at all.

does anyone have the same experience? why do black cd-r turn out to be more expensive for some brands?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:11 am

umm, excuse me? by deffinition of the colour black they have to be LESS reflective...

but the fact is that black coloured CD-Rs aren't better or worse, just different.

The black colour can reduce jitter problems caused by the wrong reflected light getting back to the read head that shouldn't, but generally they are just a gimick.
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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:04 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:The black colour can reduce jitter problems caused by the wrong reflected light getting back to the read head that shouldn't
i wonder if there's any truth to that.
same goes for the "black tray that reduces jitter" in Plextor drives, ever since the 40/12/40A drive.

i would like to see scientific testing of this claim, but most likely i won't.

without any convincing proof, personally i believe it's bullshit.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:54 am

wow, and here I thought words like that would be censored!

yeah, I've heard the same thing about the trays... I don't know. Scientifically, there *IS* some basis for it, but I don't know how much it really effects things. Actually, generally speaking, I've found the black CD-Rs MUCH harder to read, even if their quality was good.

the idea goes somthing like this: The laser used to read the pits and lands is a little wider then the track size, this means that some of the light reflected will be useless garbage, and some of this will eventually make it back to the read head via reflection. This causes minor problems for the reader, but generally nothing big. Supposedly it is mainly car stereos that have the biggest problem with these errors. Using Black CD-Rs decreases the amount of reflection, and therefor decreases the amount of light that is reflecting garbage data. More light will reflect from the actual track because of the angle of the laser, and in the end there should be a lower ratio of garbage data to good data.

like I said, it makes sense, but I don't know if it really makes a difference.
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Postby pranav81 on Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:39 am

Dear all,
I personally dont think there is basically any difference between the CD-R's,except the colour ofcourse.I say this because I have used both CD-R's and didnt find anyhting extra-ordinary in the black CD-R's except that they are a little expensive.
See ya guys later,


::Pranav::
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Postby Ian on Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:39 am

Most of the black discs I've used have been of poor quality. The only benefit I've seen is that they look cool.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:55 am

The Ritek black CD-Rs are some of the worst CD-Rs I've EVER encountered. Prodisc's Black CD-Rs are pretty good, and CMC's Black CD-Rs are the best of the 3 (oddly enough!).
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby rdgrimes on Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:37 pm

I tested these Memorex black Riteks about 9 months ago. I believe they may have been burned in a LTR-48125W. Anyway they're holding up fairly well. Just scanned them again;
Burned at 40x:
Image

Burned at 48x:
Image

Like most media, if you push them too hard, you lose.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:47 pm

check out my review of Ritek black CD-Rs on my website, they didn't hold up even REMOTELY as well as your memorex Ritek blacks (mine were generic ritek blacks)
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby rdgrimes on Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:56 pm

I forgot to post this:
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 15s 17f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = RiTEK,TG
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X

I forget what speed they were labeled at, but 40x is likely. Same ATIP, but clearly not the same media as yours, dolphinius_rex.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:12 pm

yup, different ATIP and everything! plus SmartBurn limited mine to 24x max.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby daveman_84 on Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:11 pm

One time my friend burned me a disc that was a black CD-R, I put it in my car player, and not only would it not play, it got stuck. I had to pry it out with tweezers and I forget what else. My car player has never had any problems with standard CD-R's though.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:27 am

that is more likely due to imperfections in the disc itself, then because of its' colour.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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