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CD burning quality: Plextor Premium vs Liteon 52327S

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CD burning quality: Plextor Premium vs Liteon 52327S

Postby fluxus_LT on Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:57 pm

according to Ian's review I noticed that Plextor Premium do have higher c1/c2 error rate compared to Liteon 52327S although it was done using different programs ( kprobe and q-check).

Do this mean that the famous Plex writing quality has decreased ?
I have already ordered Plex Premium, so now I want to know if it is true about quality... Maybe I have made a mistake buying it ?
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Postby dhc014 on Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:15 pm

You can't really compare Q-Check and KProbe...

I'm sure the Plextor will be just fine.
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Postby CDRecorder on Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:51 pm

From what I understand, both drives have very good writing quality (I know my LTR-52327Ss do). The Lite-On may be slightly better, but the difference is essentially negligible. As Dhc014 said, I'm sure that the Plextor will be fine for you! :D
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:45 pm

From all the tests I've seen done, the LiteON 48125W has the closest resemblance to Plextools - Q-Check... and my personal testing confirms the similarities.

As for writing quality differences between LiteON and Plextor, why not compare similarily priced drives? ie. the LiteON LDW-401s or LDW-411s instead of the LiteON 52327S?

I know if I was going to ever buy a CD burner for personal use, I would opt for the LiteON LDW-401s over the Premium in an INSTANT! (although the CD testing on the LiteON DVD burner is REALLY inaccurate!)
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Postby aviationwiz on Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:59 am

OK, A couple things here.

The quality on the Premium is much higher than that on the LTR-52327S. That is both writing quality and build quality. I hate the build quality in my Lite-On drives, you just never know if it is going to work correctly or not. With that said, the appropriate phrase to say would be, if he bought the LTR-52327S "I'm sure the Lite-On will work fine for you."

I love the extra features on the Premium that other drives don't have, I love em', I use em', with that said, I'd like to move on to more of an argument aimed directly at dolphinius_rex.

dolphinius_rex,

Now who the f*ck in the right mind would buy a DVD burner only to be used as a CD burner? That is just stupid. Now let's do what it was SUPPOSED to be, eh. The LDW-401S was supposed to be a high quality, affordable DVD Writer. Well, it's affordable, but it is FAR from high quality. You and many others complain about the LDW-401S being terrible very often. I agree with what rdgrimes has stated in other threads about it being the media, but it simply is not the case for all of these problems. I have heard MANY problems about this drive and writing to DVD's.

Now, let's take a nice little look comparing the LDW-401S to the PX-708A, shall we? Both were meant to be High Quality DVD Burners, one was meant to be affordable, the other, not-so affordable. It doesn't take a rocket scientest to figure out that the PX-708A is the winner there, for one, as I stated earlier, build quality is going to be much better, but also the DVD writing quality. I can't, and won't speak for the CD writing quality of this drive, as I have not, and do not plan on burning CD's with this drive, that is because I am very happy with my Premium for CD Burning.

To sum it all up. Why the f*ck would you recomend a DVD Burner over a CD burner for CD Burning!!! That is stupidity. You have insulted the LDW-401S time and time again, but yet you recomend it in place of a drive meant for CD burning! That would be idiotic in any drive as well, not just the Premium!
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Postby hoxlund on Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:10 am

well i for one am a like the apple commercial's state

SWITCH

i used to love Litey's but now after owning and still using both the LTR-48125W and Plextor Premium, i would take the premium anyday

i would never switch back to lite-on for myself, but i recommend them all the time to my staples customers, because they have no clue the difference in brands, firmware, build quality, media compatibility

all they want is something to sit there and burn media fast, not burn quality, but for me and my high tech buddies, we all own nice build, burn quality drives
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:38 am

my my aviationwiz...don't get so worked up. :-?

OK let's say you're right and the Plextor 708A is a better DVD recorder than the Lite-On 401S.
but let's looks it another way: consider the Lite-On as a CDRW drive.

the Plextor Premium and the Lite-On 401S cost more or less the same. both the Plextor and the Lite-On write excellent quality CDs (the Plextor has the advantage of speed though). both have some extra features: the Plex has the SecuRec and GigaRec. the Lite-On OTOH has the ability to burn DVD+R/W (on high quality media). the Plextor has PlexTools Q-Check, the Lite-On has KProbe (note: CD testing, not DVD!).

when looking at it this way, i'm not too sure that the Plextor Premium is the better choice than the Lite-On 401S!

and this was dolphin's argument, i believe. not pitting the Lite-On as a DVDRW drive against the 708A.
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Postby rdgrimes on Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:16 pm

although the CD testing on the LiteON DVD burner is REALLY inaccurate!

This has to be taken as a personal opinion, as there is no real evidence that this is so.
I've searched and searched, and have yet to find any reported evidence that the 401/411 drive has any "problems" with it's error reporting, on CDs or anything else. I've scanned a couple hundred discs in these drives and have never seen cause to doubt the error reporting.
PLEASE post some evidence.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:13 pm

rdgrimes: Evidence is in the works! I'll respond soon with 3 scans of the same disc, one scan done on the LiteON 48125W, one on the Plextor Premium, and one on the LiteON LDW-401s

Dodecahedron: Thanks! That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say! SO far I would say the writing quality of the LDW-401s (on DVD+R/RWs) very much compares to the writing quality of the Plextor Premium using Giga Record! LOL! :wink: (then again, I have yet to see it work at 1.4x under any circumstances :cry: )
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:37 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:rdgrimes: Evidence is in the works! I'll respond soon with 3 scans of the same disc, one scan done on the LiteON 48125W, one on the Plextor Premium, and one on the LiteON LDW-401s

and please oh PLEASE oh PLEASE for christ sakes, do a scan also on a Lite-On DVD-ROM drive too to settle that question as well.

dolphinius_rex wrote:That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say! SO far I would say the writing quality of the LDW-401s (on DVD+R/RWs) very much compares to the writing quality of the Plextor Premium using Giga Record! LOL! :wink: (then again, I have yet to see it work at 1.4x under any circumstances :cry: )

i must admit i wasn't thinking quite this, i was comparing the Lite-On 401S and the Plextor 708A as CD-R/W drives that have some extra features. but your point just adds to the comparison i made. :)
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Postby rdgrimes on Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:51 pm

3 scans of the same disc, one scan done on the LiteON 48125W, one on the Plextor Premium, and one on the LiteON LDW-401s

Not sure what that is supposed to prove, most of us already know you can't compared scans from different drives.
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Postby OC-Freak on Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:12 pm

This is just my personal findings, and I do not have time for any scans now.

Plextor premium: very good writer, but on good discs it's easily beaten by the Lite-On LTR-52246S when it comes to the amount of C1 errors on a disc. The advantage (if you could call it that since it actually makes it slower) is that it slows down the write-speed VERY easy on many discs and thus giving lower amount of C1 errors on some types of discs.

Lite-On LTR-52246S: Best writer I've had for most types of CD-R discs when you speak about the amount of C1 errors. But there is a few types of CD-R discs where the amount of C1 errors is sky-high at the end, the plextor premium do not have this problem as it slows down the write speed much easier than the Lite-On.

And do not compare scans from q-check with K-probe scans! My comments is based on scans of discs written by both drives and then scanned and compared in the same program.

To my experience the LTR-52246S have better write quality than the plextor premium on about 70-80% of the discs, for the rest 20-30% the plextor premium is the winner.

Can't comment on the LTR-52327S as I don't have it.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:01 pm

rdgrimes wrote:
3 scans of the same disc, one scan done on the LiteON 48125W, one on the Plextor Premium, and one on the LiteON LDW-401s

Not sure what that is supposed to prove, most of us already know you can't compared scans from different drives.


the problem I see with the LiteON 401s and its' testing abilities, is that EVERY disc I've scanned on it, comes up with an average of less then 1 C1 errors, regardless of the discs actual quality. In fact, a good portion of the disc is usually listed as having 0 C1 errors... I find this VERY hard to believe! especially with some of the lower grade media I've tested.

My point in comparing the 3 scans is, if Q-Check, and the scan done by the LiteON 48125W are roughly similar, and the LiteON 401s is way off, then we most likely know that there is a problem with the LiteON 401s's media testing abilities (for CDs).
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Postby rdgrimes on Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:09 pm

is that EVERY disc I've scanned on it, comes up with an average of less then 1 C1 errors

That doesn't sound right. Have a look at posted scans at DCF in the CDR forum, search for "ESOG".

HERE it is
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:03 am

Ok, here are some scans for you :D


The Disc scanned is a SmartBuy 48x CD-R (Made by Prodisc), that was burned on the Plextor Premium at 8x.

Image

Testing done on the LiteON 48125W, scanned at 40x
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image
Image

Testing done on the Plextor Premium with Q-Check, with Plextools 2.08... other then the C2 errors, fairly similar to the LiteON 48125W.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image

Tested on the LiteON LDW-401s.... I have NO idea what this thing is reporting, but *I* sure as heck don't trust it!
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Postby fluxus_LT on Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:33 pm

OC-Freak wrote:This is just my personal findings, and I do not have time for any scans now.

Plextor premium: very good writer, but on good discs it's easily beaten by the Lite-On LTR-52246S when it comes to the amount of C1 errors on a disc. The advantage (if you could call it that since it actually makes it slower) is that it slows down the write-speed VERY easy on many discs and thus giving lower amount of C1 errors on some types of discs.

Lite-On LTR-52246S: Best writer I've had for most types of CD-R discs when you speak about the amount of C1 errors. But there is a few types of CD-R discs where the amount of C1 errors is sky-high at the end, the plextor premium do not have this problem as it slows down the write speed much easier than the Lite-On.

And do not compare scans from q-check with K-probe scans! My comments is based on scans of discs written by both drives and then scanned and compared in the same program.

To my experience the LTR-52246S have better write quality than the plextor premium on about 70-80% of the discs, for the rest 20-30% the plextor premium is the winner.

Can't comment on the LTR-52327S as I don't have it.


I see. Well, it would be interesting to know the experiences about LTR-52327S. because 52246 is not available now.
You said that you compared those burned cd's in the same program.
Don't you think that this program might not be so tolerant to cd burned on plex than in liteon and can show that plex cd has more c1 errors though it is not ? Of course you did the right thing, but such aspect is still important.
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Postby Harrier on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:32 pm

aviationwiz wrote:OK, A couple things here.

The quality on the Premium is much higher than that on the LTR-52327S. That is both writing quality...



You know, usually, when asked for advice, one should back up it's arguments by more than a fuming strain of talk coupled with useless name affinities. So please halt the drama.

As for built quality, the veteran users here may recall some of such issues reported of in the past though such complaints have become unwonted as time passed. So i could guess that LiteOn has looked into these "conundrums" and has implement some improvements as newer models came out (i.e. the LTR52327S is considerably shorter than the LTR52246S. It may not be a fable saying that such act was taken in order to ameliorate the past issues).
I am able the reach some level of accord when it comes to building quality with the Plextor Vs. LiteOn.
But i'd never agree (until substantiated with evidence) with you on the writing quality issue.

As i've visited other forums and talked to some users who had both drives, none was able to convince me that the Plextor is of better caliber than the LiteOn. Kprobe C1/C2 monitorings of both and Q-Checks as well had never had the unquestionable competency of vindicating any of the sides in this topic. And i know i own a LiteOn, so why not show for all to see how you have reached the oh-so promising ordainment of Plextor being superior to the LiteOn.

I could only say i've found LiteOn (52327S and especially the 52246S) to be a tad better than the Premium.

while accounting to many of the LiteOn's disadvantages, you have yet to look into the Premium's shortfalls.
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Postby rdgrimes on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:46 pm

why not show for all to see how you have reached the oh-so promising ordainment of Plextor

Oh please, no! All we'll get is a rash of scans on discs burned at lord knows what speed on the Plex, compared with 52x (real 52x) burns on the LiteOn. Not to mention the Plex scans at 24x speed. Just let it drop, most readers can tell the difference between BS and evidence. :wink:
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Postby hoxlund on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:50 pm

i would agree, this is getting outta hand, i like plextor, its my opinion that there better built

as far as burn quality, who knows
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Postby rdgrimes on Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:57 pm

better built

This is not in question, nor on topic. most sensible folks would conclude that to justify the price, the Plex would need to last 2-3x as long as the LiteOn. that would mean it should be capable of running somewhere between 5000 and 10000 discs. I wonder how many end-users would care to run that many discs on a drive. not to mention it would be sorely outdated long befor it wore out!
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:12 pm

okay.... umm, back to the point I was trying to make then:
The LiteON LDW-401s cannot properly test CD-Rs for quality. it is VERY inaccurate when compared to actual standards. You will remember that the Plextor Premiun's Q-Check comes fairly close to the Audio Dev equipment, and the LiteON 48125W comes VERY close to both as well. The LiteON LDW-401s however, doesn't seem to meet those standards.
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Postby rdgrimes on Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:13 pm

dolphinius_rex

Noted your scans, but let's face it, they are comparing apples and oranges.
Let's try to compare drives that have some semblence of similarity.
I chose the LiteOn 52327S and the 411S. This is a disc that was burned in the 7S at 52x, no slowdowns, using QS0B firmware. I have scanned it in each drive , chosing 32x scan speed as a happy medium.

Image

Image

In the 401/411 drives, the large single spikes of C2 errors are some sort of a reading glitch that is not related to the quality of the disc. But just looking at the C1 counts, the difference is not significant. The disposition and patterns of C1 are very similar, only the total numbers are different. If you take all the "1" value C1 from the 7S scan and add them to the 411 scan, you get very much the same scan.
The only thing any of these scans really tell us is that the 401/411 is a very good reading drive for CDR.
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Postby aviationwiz on Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:26 pm

rdgrimes wrote:
why not show for all to see how you have reached the oh-so promising ordainment of Plextor

Oh please, no! All we'll get is a rash of scans on discs burned at lord knows what speed on the Plex, compared with 52x (real 52x) burns on the LiteOn. Not to mention the Plex scans at 24x speed. Just let it drop, most readers can tell the difference between BS and evidence. :wink:


All right, I picked this to quote as it looked like the best, but I'm addressing EVERYONE here.

Many times I have posted many good comparisons of Lite-On vs Plextor. I'm not going to do it again, as I'm sick of it. I've already proven it, so why the f**k should I have to prove it again. You can disagree, but there really isn't much to disagree on.

What I really don't get is:

Why when people post scans of burns on Lite-On drives it is OK and informational, but when I go to post scans of burns done in the Plextor, it is a "rash of scans done at who knows what speed." I always post what speed everything was burned at, scanned at, PoweRec speed, everything.

I'm sick of all the Lite-On, Plextor, Benq, whatever fanism going on here. Whether it be by me, or anyone else. I have posted reasons of why I prefer the Premium for burning CD's, and I have backed it up with everything possible. For the PX-708A, I have posted reasons why, and backed it up with almost everything. Same goes for the LITE-ON LTD-163D that I think is the best DVD-ROM out there (only other one I'd accept as a reasonable anwser is the LTD-166S :wink: )

The CD scans done in the Premium can not even be argued, it's been proven time and time again that it is just as accurate as CD Doctor, KProbe, and WSES. The DVD scans you can argue as much as you want, as I'm not even sure how accuarte (or inaccurate) it is. Considering they have a DVD Test Forum at CD Freaks (with most scans done in KProbe, with all types of drives) it must be at least partially accurate.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:32 pm

rdgrimes wrote:dolphinius_rex

Noted your scans, but let's face it, they are comparing apples and oranges.
Let's try to compare drives that have some semblence of similarity.
I chose the LiteOn 52327S and the 411S. This is a disc that was burned in the 7S at 52x, no slowdowns, using QS0B firmware. I have scanned it in each drive , chosing 32x scan speed as a happy medium.

Image

Image

In the 401/411 drives, the large single spikes of C2 errors are some sort of a reading glitch that is not related to the quality of the disc. But just looking at the C1 counts, the difference is not significant. The disposition and patterns of C1 are very similar, only the total numbers are different. If you take all the "1" value C1 from the 7S scan and add them to the 411 scan, you get very much the same scan.
The only thing any of these scans really tell us is that the 401/411 is a very good reading drive for CDR.


I'm trying to compare the LiteON 401s's testing abilities to the industry standard. I'm not trying to say it isn't a good reader. I'm just trying to say that scans done on the drive are completely useless to anyone not using the same drive, whereas the Plextor Premium and LiteON 48125W are useful since they roughly conform to AudioDev standards.
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:55 pm

aviationwiz wrote:Many times I have posted many good comparisons of Lite-On vs Plextor. I'm not going to do it again, as I'm sick of it. I've already proven it, so why should I have to prove it again. You can disagree, but there really isn't much to disagree on.


Have you actually compared discs burned with your Premiums with discs you have burned on a 52327S? I'd like to see a link if you have indeed done this.

BTW, I am not saying which drive is better. I've heard that both are better, and since I don't own a Plextor Premium, I can't honestly say I know which is better.
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