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Checking CDR media quality

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Checking CDR media quality

Postby silviobianchi on Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:09 pm

After burning a CD, how do I check for media quality? If coasters occured, possible defect on disks, etc. What I am looing for is a way of finding out is specific media is good or not.

Thanks.
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Postby cfitz on Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:30 pm

CD Speed's ScanDisk and CD Quality Check are the most popular ways to check the "physical" quality of a burn:

www.cdspeed2000.com

If you have a supported drive, CD Doctor or WSES will give you a more detailed characterization of the "physical" quality:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8095

CD Check is good for verifying the integrity of files:

http://www.elpros.si/CDCheck/

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CD Speed ScanDisk???

Postby damon on Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:10 am

I installed Nero CD Speed and tested with ScanDisk some CD-Rs I have been burned earlier. With the CD-RW drive there is no problem at all - nor with File test, nor with Surface test but when trying to test the disc in my DVD-ROM there is some yellow parts that were absent checking the disc in writer. I tested and some discs burned in other writer and at times there yellow parts too. In the writer seems everyting OK. Every CD I tested is readable without probles in the two drives. CD Speed help tells that damaged sectors means that they still can be readable. What It means - Is that a trouble? Especially I want to understand for disc made of my writer because It's new and I still suspect some hardware failure after my problems in the beginning that seems to me is gone now but who knows... One of my discs that I think is OK was full with yellow sectors and embarrass me. Of ourse when I tested in whiter every sector was green but i want the CDs I made to be written in every cd-rom not only in my writer.
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Postby blakerwry on Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:32 am

cdspeed's tools are more a test of the reader than the writer... some CD's read better than others.

In general, a CD writer can read better than a plain ol reader.. even a DVD reader. This usually goes for Audio and pressed CD's not just CD-R's.

if you want, you can try changing media... why dont you pick up a pack of fuji film's and test it out.
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Postby cfitz on Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:00 am

blakerwry wrote:cdspeed's tools are more a test of the reader than the writer... some CD's read better than others.

They are a test of both the reader and the writer, and the media as well. Unfortunately one can’t easily separate the effects of each part of the triangle. But testing is still useful.

Damon, you might want to read these threads:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7616
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 4257#34257
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6103#46103
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6820#46820

Don't get too worried by some of the more highly technical and esoteric discussion in some parts of those threads if they don't make sense to you. Just get a feel for the general issues involved in testing and interpreting the results. Unfortunately it isn't as straightforward as we would like, and can't be easily boiled down to "good" and "bad".

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Postby damon on Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:55 am

Thank you! I feel better after reading your explanations... :) If the CD is readable in writer this is a good step ahead. At least this is normal for my drive.
And I want to ask you something else because i didnt find answers in the other postings. I tested audio CDs made before and every sector is dark yellow. I tested audio CD made by other writer and the results are the same. And finally i tested original matrix CD and yellow again! What means that? The CDs are readable without problems... Is the yellow sector means loss of quallity of sound? I dont think so!
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Postby cfitz on Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:21 pm

damon wrote:I tested audio CDs made before and every sector is dark yellow. I tested audio CD made by other writer and the results are the same. And finally i tested original matrix CD and yellow again! What means that? The CDs are readable without problems... Is the yellow sector means loss of quallity of sound? I dont think so!

From the CD Speed help file's discussion of interpreting ScanDisc results for an audio CD:

CD Speed Help File wrote:Unlike data CD's, the yellow areas are uncorrectable which means a loss of quality. The color tells you how badly the sectors are damaged. Bright yellow means only a few errors, dark orange means a lot of errors.

Pressed CD's can have errors also. :( You may not be able to detect the degradation in audio quality, depending on how critical your ears are, because the player will attempt to mask the errors on an audio CD.

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Postby damon on Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:21 pm

OK, but I tried original matrix audio CD without any visible scratches or fingertips of other visible damage and the result is:
Image

The test is the same with every audioCD - CD-R or pressed CD... [/img]
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Postby Nhawk on Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:26 pm

For some reason, all CDs checked with v1.02 of Nero CD Speed come up as 100% damaged.
You may want to try v1.01 or v1.00
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Postby cfitz on Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:17 pm

Nhawk wrote:For some reason, all CDs checked with v1.02 of Nero CD Speed come up as 100% damaged.
You may want to try v1.01 or v1.00

That's not true, at least not in general. My copy of CD Speed v1.02 has no trouble scannning a error-free audio and data discs - pressed and CD-R.

However, damon's experience of having all the audio discs he tests come up 100% damaged is highly suspicious to say the least. Damon, in your case if you are using version 1.02 you might want to try Nhawk's suggestion. You can get version 0.83 from the wayback machine of the Internet Archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200110242214 ... nload.html

Is this happening when testing in all your drives, or just one? And in what drives (actual make and model) are you testing?

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Postby cfitz on Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:21 pm

cfitz wrote:You can get version 0.83 from the wayback machine of the Internet Archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200110242214 ... nload.html

I should have known that was too good to be true. The link works, but the zip file appears to be corrupted. Damon, since CDSpeed is a free program, if you need an earlier version and can't find it with Google, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

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Postby damon on Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:57 pm

Oh, i have very interesting situation that i noticed just before a minute. Every disk that tested and was reported "damaged" in CD-RW device - Philips CDD 6911 48/16/48. But the same CDs - pressed and burned were "green" when i test them in my DVD-ROM - NEC DV-5700B. One of CDs have some yellow and even one red sector but this is probably caused by media - a cheap Creation! One of the CD that i've burned yesterday - Maxell media 0,14% unreadable and 0,14% damaged, the rest is good - that (the red sector i mean) may because i burned it in TAO mode... who knows. And the third aufio CD-R i've burned today in DAO is 100% OK in DVD. This is the situation - my DVD reads audio better than RW but with data CDs opposite. :roll: I've noticed before that CDDA extraction is better in DVD-ROM than the RW.
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Postby TheWizard on Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:27 pm

The picture you showed of Nero ScanDisc does not represent the data being damaged, look again at the color of the blocks. Bright yellow is damaged, the faded yellow (let's call it gold) in your picture means the drive cannot report C2 errors. If you want to check the data, stick to your NEC DV-5700B and not your Philips CDD6911.
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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:56 am

TheWizard wrote:The picture you showed of Nero ScanDisc does not represent the data being damaged, look again at the color of the blocks. Bright yellow is damaged, the faded yellow (let's call it gold) in your picture means the drive cannot report C2 errors.

Huh? I've never heard of that. Is this something new? When I try to test a CD in my Yamaha CRW3200EZ, which does not report C2 errors, first I get a warning message:

Image

If I let the test run to completion anyway, I get the following (this particular example is for an audio CD):

Image

That is what I would expect from a drive that doesn't report C2 errors - all the sectors are reported to be error-free.

(By the way, all of the above taken from version 1.02 of CDSpeed, although I got the same results with all earlier versions back to 0.83)

Damon, do you get a warning about your CDD6911 not being able to report damaged sectors when you run ScanDisc? And when you run InfoTool what does it report for your CDD6911 drive's capability to report C2 errors? I couldn't find an exact match to the CDD69111 (and I know InfoTool may not be 100% accurate), but Ian's review of the same generation Philips CDRW4012P shows it supports C2 error reporting:

Image

Finally, the CDSpeed help file itself shows an example of a bad audio CD whose golden colors match those shown in Damon's post:

CDSpeed Help File wrote:Image

This is another example of a badly damaged disc, this time an Audio CD. Unlike data CD's, the yellow areas are uncorrectable which means a loss of quality. The color tells you how badly the sectors are damaged. Bright yellow means only a few errors, dark orange means a lot of errors.


I'm not sure what is going on with Damon's CDD6911. I would concede that it is possible it isn't reporting C2 errors accurately, but I don't think his results are simply a matter of the drive not reporting C2 errors to CDSpeed at all.

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Postby TheWizard on Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:16 am

cfitz wrote:Huh? I've never heard of that. Is this something new? When I try to test a CD in my Yamaha CRW3200EZ, which does not report C2 errors, first I get a warning message:

Image


Every drive I have owned that does not report C2 errors correctly first gives me the error (as you showed above, cfitz) then displays gold blocks. I have seen drives that supposedly don't report C2 errors (like your Yamaha), but ScanDisc still displays the blocks as being green. My roommate's old HP 8X4X32 drive does this.

cfitz wrote:If I let the test run to completion anyway, I get the following (this particular example is for an audio CD):

Image
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Postby dhc014 on Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:34 am

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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:43 am

Thanks for the follow up Wizard. That gold-block = no error thing is new to me. It would be nice if the documentation stated as much. I wonder if the various shades of yellow-gold are still used to indicate differing levels of C2 errors on audio discs for drives that do report C2 errors, or if that is a remnant of older versions that now lives only in the (outdated?) help file.

I sure wish Erik Deppe would improve his documentation and explain precisely what his otherwise very nice programs are measuring and displaying. If you've been following some of the other threads around here, you know that while the general function of CDSpeed is understood, there are a lot of questions about the specific details. Oh well, beggars can't be choosers...

And by the way, dhc014, nice job posting those links. Thanks Dave.

I guess this leaves the ball in Damon's court. Damon, do you get the warning or not?

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Postby damon on Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:18 am

cfitz wrote:I guess this leaves the ball in Damon's court. Damon, do you get the warning or not?

cfitz


I m very absent, sorry! This message i get for both drives. This seems that the both drives can't report damage sectors... :( But when I load data CD i recieve the massage and after that i see green, some yellow, even this "last sector bug" on multisesion CD. THis mean that the drives can report damage sector anyway? Or not...
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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:20 am

damon wrote:This message i get for both drives.

Sigh... it would have been nice if you had told us this earlier. :(

This applies to anyone seeking help: We can't read minds, and the more information you give us, the better. No need to make what is already a difficult process - debugging computer problems remotely - even more difficult by hiding or omitting vital tidbits of information. Tell us everything you know and let us decide whether or not it is relevant. Also, don't make us drag information out of you. Volunteer it up front, preferably when you make your first post. Tell us exactly what you are trying to do and how you are trying to do it, what software and versions of that software you are using, what settings you are using within that software, what make and model of drive you are using, etc.

There have been a couple of instances of this type of thing lately. I wasn't following it closely, but apparently there was another thread where someone was trying to figure out how to read a specially formatted disc on hardware that, it came out later, was already known to have other problems.

No hard feelings, Damon. I just had to get that off my chest. Now back to your issue.

If CDSpeed is saying that your drives are unable to report damaged sectors, then you likely can't use the full capabilities of the ScanDisc and CD Quality tests in CDSpeed. You can still get some information, because unreadable sectors can be detected (in the obvious manner) even on a drive that doesn't report damaged sectors. From what you describe, your DVD-ROM is a better choice for testing your CD's than your CD-RW drive. I wouldn't use the CD-RW at all for testing, and would use the DVD-ROM only with healthy skepticism of the test results and the realization that you aren't getting the whole, accurate picture with it.

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Postby Kennyshin on Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:14 am

This applies to anyone seeking help: We can't read minds, and the more information you give us, the better. No need to make what is already a difficult process - debugging computer problems remotely - even more difficult by hiding or omitting vital tidbits of information. Tell us everything you know and let us decide whether or not it is relevant. Also, don't make us drag information out of you. Volunteer it up front, preferably when you make your first post. Tell us exactly what you are trying to do and how you are trying to do it, what software and versions of that software you are using, what settings you are using within that software, what make and model of drive you are using, etc.


Great! Can we make it sticky? (Kidding.) :D
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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:39 pm

Kennyshin wrote:Great! Can we make it sticky? (Kidding.) :D

Actually, BuddhaTB was talking about making a guide to posting with suggestions like please don't title your post "HELP". Maybe my mini-rant could be snuck into that same guide. I'm not sure where BuddhaTB stands on that project.

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Postby damon on Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:25 pm

Sorry for that. You are absolutely right. :oops:
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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:57 pm

damon wrote:Sorry for that. You are absolutely right. :oops:

That's okay. Like I said, no hard feelings. Let's hope we can all do better next time.

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CDSpeed 1.02

Postby slick_r1ck on Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:58 pm

I also have problems checking CD quality now i have installed version 1.02. Now every disk that i check (CDR and pressed) just comes back all yellow, whereas before they would mostly show up green, with yellow areas only on badly scratched media etc.

I've got a LiteOn 48x24x48 drive and have tried the latest firmware but to no avail.
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