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CD-R vs Commercial Pressed

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CD-R vs Commercial Pressed

Postby Asrale on Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:27 am

I want to know what differences there really are between a commercially-pressed audio CD, and a CD-R copy of it. I recently made some copies of my own music CDs (legally-bought if you wanted to know) using my Lite-On 48246S and CloneCD with full settings on for optimal transfer. But when I took the copies to my worksite (wouldn't want my originals to get stolen, heh) so I could play them on the CD player & speakers there (since they let us play music while we work), none of the CD-Rs would load.

Some people told me the CD player can't read burned CDs so it ended up sucking, so I want to know what's the deal? Every CD copy I've ever made has worked on every player I've come across so far, so what would be up with this one? Is there some physical difference I'm not aware of? As far as I can tell, they're practically perfect copies.
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Postby pranav81 on Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:44 am

Do the CD's dont play only on that CD player and play on all the other players you have tried?If that is the problem then the problem may lie in the media.You could also try recording at lower speed,such as 16X or 8X.I have seen that this helps me when I write music CD's.

And if the CD player is old,it may not be able to play CD-R's.


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Postby Asrale on Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:14 pm

Well I guess it could be the media. Recently I got a KHypermedia/CMC 100pk spindle rated for 48X because it was really cheap, and I don't need higher-quality media for everything I burn, you know how that is (some CDs I don't use very long, or contain "throwaway" data). But I did burn at 16X.

I do have a lot of Fuji TY discs for other times though (like critical data backups and archival copies for games & music), should I try that instead? And should I burn at an even slower rate, like 8X or even 4X?

And this CD player at work, well I've never used it before (haven't been working there too long) but it looks fairly recent.

Oh and I'm not that familiar with CloneCD, what settings should I use for a complete "paranoid" best-quality kind of transfer? (assuming I have enough time for the process)
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Postby burninfool on Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:52 pm

It's probably the player.
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Postby pranav81 on Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:27 am

Try burning on the Fuji media you have with lowest burn speed you can.Just burn one disc and try playing it.If it does not,then it's probably the player that doesnt like CD-R's.


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Postby Asrale on Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:24 am

Well ok I'll do that, but my main question is still unanswered. :p What are the differences between the two types of CDs when one is a complete data copy of the other?
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Postby cfitz on Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:06 am

The differences are the low-level physical properties of the media. Things like reflectivity, eccentricity, pit and land jitter, etc. Here is a two-page document from Philips that gives you an idea of the many physical characteristics that can vary on media and thus make any given piece of media more or less readable in various devices.

The two discs may encode the same bits, but the tolerance and quality of the physical details of that encoding can vary. This is a poor analogy, but your question is akin to asking "Yugos and Mercedes are both cars that can start, stop and turn, so what could be the difference between them?" The difference is in how well and with what precision and tolerances they physically implement their function.

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Postby digitaldoc on Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:41 pm

Some of the older players just don't play cdr's. You can try burning at a slower speed, and using a different brand of discs. If it doesn't work then it's the player and there's nothing one can do.

I'm assuming that the discs play fine in other players.
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Postby choppedliver on Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:33 am

Asrale wrote:Well ok I'll do that, but my main question is still unanswered. :p What are the differences between the two types of CDs when one is a complete data copy of the other?


Its mainly the difference in reflectivity. Its quite obvious. Does a pressed CD look like a CDR? NO. Well, they dont look the same to your CD player either. Older players may not be able to handle the reflectivity difference. On one of these older ones, you cannot say "it wont play burned cds." That is not necessarily a true statement because you can burn the SAME information, on the SAME burner, but on DIFFERENT media, and it may play some of the discs and not others. Back when CDR's first came out, I remember my car stereo would play the Kodak Gold CDs (They were actually gold colored instead of purple/blue/green).

So when u are talking about discs all burned on the same drive, you basically are talking about a difference in the way the CD "looks" to the CD player. They dont look the same to you as a pressed CD, so why should they look the same to a optical pickup.
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Postby BillyG on Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:21 am

I have found that the older the CD player is the less likely it will read CD-R's. Players that were made in the 80's-to-mid 90's have a hard time reading CD-R's and most never play CD-RW.

The professional Denon CD Cart decks at my friends radio station wouldnt play any CD-R that used green/blue dye (Taiyo Uden, Verbatim). We found out that yellow/gold dye Ritek (Maxell and some TDK) worked the best.
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Postby choppedliver on Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:06 am

BillyG wrote:I have found that the older the CD player is the less likely it will read CD-R's. Players that were made in the 80's-to-mid 90's have a hard time reading CD-R's and most never play CD-RW.

The professional Denon CD Cart decks at my friends radio station wouldnt play any CD-R that used green/blue dye (Taiyo Uden, Verbatim). We found out that yellow/gold dye Ritek (Maxell and some TDK) worked the best.


Yes, this is typically the case. CDR didnt exist in the 80's so there was no way to ensure it would read a CDR (since they didnt exist). And during the mid 90's, when CDR was coming on the scene, manufacturers gradually began to make sure their equipment would read CDR's, but some were slower to implement this than others. Having said that, plenty of old, PRE-cdr cd players will read CDR's, since it was designed to be compatible with the cd standard. If you buy a new CD player now, and it doesnt read CDR, then there is absolutely no excuse for that, and I would definitely take it back as it is either defective or just a major piece of crap.

CDRW is a different story all together. Many/Most old cd players will read CDR, but unless your CD player/CDRom reader was designed from the start to be able to read CDRW, 99.99% of the time it wont.

Once again though, CDRW has been around long enough that there is NO excuse for a modern reader of anykind to not be able to read CDRW.
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Postby BillyG on Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:27 pm

choppedliver wrote: If you buy a new CD player now, and it doesnt read CDR, then there is absolutely no excuse for that, and I would definitely take it back as it is either defective or just a major piece of crap.
(edit)
Once again though, CDRW has been around long enough that there is NO excuse for a modern reader of anykind to not be able to read CDRW.


Theres still a few cheap CD players (portables, jamboxes) out there that wont play them. I had a freind who bought a $49 bargan CD changer last year (I think it was a Symphonic) that wouldnt play CD-RW's - he took it back and bought a Sony that did.

Theres been plenty of reports that some of the new copy protected CD's wont play in cheap CD players too.
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Postby fil on Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:51 pm

When burning audio cds, always make sure you use DAO(Disk-At-Once) and close the session.
Also some old desktop players are not able to read some brands and/or disks burned at highest speeds(I like to use 8x).
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