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Cooling Article #1

CPU's? Motherboards? Video cards? Talk about it here.

Postby MediumRare on Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:03 pm

BuddhaTB wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:i can truely say that Thermodynamics was the only course i hated in my undergrad studies...

Just great. :-? I will be taking thermodynamics next year. I've already heard that dynamics is pretty tough too.

Ahhh thermodynamics :D - the field of cryptical potentials and boundary conditions :o and those wonderful Maxwell relations that give you the handy-dandy identities that seem to be made specifically for the problem at hand (but find the right one...). :-?

It was usually left to the most junior faculty member to teach- and he only did so once until he could fob it off on the next one. The quality and enthusiasm of the teaching reflected that too. And so came the next generation of enthusiastic thermodynamicists. From the remarks made here, things haven't changed much. :roll:

Have fun with it. :wink:

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:00 pm

??? :o
potentials?
boundary conditions?
Maxwell?

sounds like you're talking about electromagnetic theory! (electrodynamics?)
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Postby MediumRare on Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:16 am

dodecahedron wrote:??? :o
potentials?
boundary conditions?
Maxwell?

sounds like you're talking about electromagnetic theory! (electrodynamics?)

- Thermodynamic potentials = Gibbs free energy, Helmholtz free energy etc.
- boundary conditions are important if you want to understand the second law (which applies only to closed systems), but they're not always apparent.
- Maxwell relations equate the mixed partial derivatives of these "free energies" with each other and give relationships between partial derivatives of the "independent" variables (pressure, volume, temperature etc.). A quick trip to Google found: this summary

But this stuff was all so long ago that I had to check up on it myself first. :wink:

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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:53 am

MediumRare wrote:But this stuff was all so long ago that I had to check up on it myself first. :wink:

there you go...same for me!
but then anyway you probably learned more thermodynamics than i, being a chemichal engineer. i studied physics & math.
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Postby MediumRare on Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:05 am

dodecahedron wrote:but then anyway you probably learned more thermodynamics than i, being a chemichal engineer. i studied physics & math.

You're thinking of CowboySlim- I'm a physicist. Thermodynamics wasn't my favourite subject, but what really left a trauma was a lecture series on Lie algebra and (don't nail me down on the name- I'd have to check some decades-old notes) Cartan root space. :evil:

Maybe we should move this to the Beer Garden ?

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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:08 am

MediumRare wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:but then anyway you probably learned more thermodynamics than i, being a chemichal engineer. i studied physics & math.

You're thinking of CowboySlim- I'm a physicist.

Opps! :o sorry 'bout that, MediumRare. :)

you got it right on the Lie Algebra and Cartan.
loved that stuff - the most interesting part of physics to me, the tying in with higher mathematics.
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Postby Derek on Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:45 pm

I'm not a huge fan of themaltake stuff. It kinda seems like they just copy whats popular. The Volcano stuff is alright, but seems cheapish to me.

If I wanted the best air cooling, I'd pickup a Swiftech Heatsink and slap a good 80mm fan (Vantec Stealth or Panaflow for quiet, Delta or Vantec Tornado for loud).

However, air cooling quickly hits a wall. If I wanted to be *really* bad ass, I'd go with some sort of water cooling. The Swiftech QPower systems are prebuilt watercooling setups. All you have to do it attach the waterblocks. However, $400 for the CPU + GPU waterblock setup is rather steep.

That watercooling will also take care of GPU cooling if you want. For GPU coolers, I'd mostly pick something that comes with a decent fan to begin. MSI, Leadtek, Abis, and ASUS for Nvidia, and Tyan and Sapphire for ATI come with good cooling stock. Zalman also has a neat fanless GPU heatpipe assembly if quiet's your thing.

Most good RAM come with sinks now a days, so I'm not worried about that.

Good article though man. Cooling is always a fun topic.

Derek

EDIT- I forgot to add - Electrical Engineering all the way! ;)
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Postby BuddhaTB on Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:28 pm

Derek wrote:EDIT- I forgot to add - Electrical Engineering all the way! ;)

Not surprised. Atleast we have one EE major here.


Good Luck Derek! You'll be needing it. :wink:
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Postby Wedge Maniac on Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:48 pm

aviationwiz,
Thank you for starting this topic and delivering great info.
This is the thread I have been looking looking for as I'm trying to understand the optimal way for cooling cases. I'm looking forward to your next guide.


blakerwry wrote:
1) Case cooling: good and proper directional air flow is most important here... having air come in at a specific location and having it exit at a specific location are very important.. That way you're getting an in-flow of cool air and exhausting the hot air... not just blowing hot air around.

Typically you will want to get a PSU that blows outwards(located at top rear), and have a case fan located at either the bottom front of the case or next to the PSU at the top rear. Air should exit at the top of the case and air should enter at the bottom.


Thank you! This seems to be essential, IMHO. I have a Gateway that I have been trying to cool. While the exterior case looks good, the lower front has extremely poor in ventilation. The plastic opening comes nowhere close to the inner grill where air should be pulled in. A removal of the plastic cover completely (it pops off) creates a 5-6 degree drop in temp of my hard drive, according to DTemp.

blakerwry wrote:2) Case cooling(continued): using rounded or "chopped" ribbon IDE/Floppy cables will prevent the flow of air from being blocked. You can also try to lay flat ribbon cables along the bottom or sides of the case so that they wont impede the flow of air.


Again, thanks. Will check into this.


blakerwry wrote:3) While your guide shows how to cool a computer, it doesn't make much mention of how to cool while being quiet. I think a second guide might focus on that aspect more... like using larger, slower fans... temperature monitoring using motherboard monitor (http://mbm.livewiredev.com)...


Yes, definitely!! I have two fans I purchased specifically for their CFM vs. dB level: Vantec Stealth 9cm and an Enermax RPM Adjustable Fan Series UC-8FAB 8cm, but I am seriously looking for other candidates so you recommendations are appreciated. Not that the ones I currently use are bad, just that I'm sure some people have some that are much better.

blakerwry wrote:4) For a future guide you might want to talk about what types of cases and PSU's are going to be conducive to effective cooling...


Again, great idea. I intend to build my own computer someday and this will be essential in choosing the PSU.

blakerwry wrote:some cases have piss poor cooling while others (that may be of similar price) have excellent cooling... same goes with PSU's.. cheaply made PSUs are often louder and produce more heat than a quality unit.


I had always assumed the more expensive, the better the product. Glad to know that this isn't the case (no pun intended).


blakerwry wrote:On a side note, I would like to recomend Speeze/Spire CPU coolers. The WhisperRock III and falconRock I and II are better than the thermaltake's and cost much less... In the US www.newegg.com sells speeze/spire products...


Cool, looking into them :)
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Postby blakerwry on Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:36 am

cfitz wrote:
blakerwry wrote:On a side note, I would like to recomend Speeze/Spire CPU coolers. The WhisperRock III and falconRock I and II are better than the thermaltake's and cost much less... In the US www.newegg.com sells speeze/spire products...

whisperRock III from newegg just $8

Thanks for the tip, blakewry. It even looks nicer than the Thermaltake, in my opinion.

And more importantly, thanks for your comments. Could we convince you to flesh out some of the points you made beyond what you just posted, and thus improve the guide even more?

cfitz



I'm honored, and I'm sorry I didnt see your post sooner.. I don't frequent CDRlabs forums as much as I used to, instead i spend my time on the more techy hardware forums like storageforum.net or storagereview.com.

But you have a great site and I wouldn't mind adding to it. What I've learned about cooling has been through my own personal experience and through reading on forums such as http://forums.silentPCreview.com

What would you prefer i elaborate on? the article itself, cooling in general, or quiet computing?
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Postby cfitz on Thu Mar 27, 2003 10:59 am

blakerwry wrote:What would you prefer i elaborate on? the article itself, cooling in general, or quiet computing?

Based on your thoughful comments, it seemed like you have done a lot of research and acquired a lot of expertise in cooling, and I was wondering if you would be willing to share some of those cooling tips in general, to complement what is already here. And the quiet cooling would be a nice bonus.

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Postby Wedge Maniac on Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:47 pm

I am particularly interested in the "quiet cooling" information.

I'm thinking I'm going to get a "silent" PSU. Right now I'm considering a Zalman or a Nexus, although some in this forum have urged the Antec TruePower, which is a fine PSU. But like I say, I'm more interested in silence. My rig is running nicely on a 250 PSU so it *should* work fine with a 300 watt silent PSU. If you have any recommendations, do tell.
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Postby blakerwry on Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:59 am

ok, i think i'll write a mini-article about effective case cooling, which will also focus on quiet cooling(since I think this is becoming more interesting to people).

Gimme a day or two to gather my thoughts and complete it.
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Postby cfitz on Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:51 am

blakerwry wrote:ok, i think i'll write a mini-article about effective case cooling, which will also focus on quiet cooling(since I think this is becoming more interesting to people).

Gimme a day or two to gather my thoughts and complete it.

Great! Looking forward to it. :)

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Postby blakerwry on Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:52 am

here's what I made http://cooling.howto.dns2go.com/

what is the best way to integrate it into this site?
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:36 am

Nice article, blakerwry. I found it to be informative, and you obviously put a lot of work into it. Thanks a lot. :D

As for integrating it into this site, the link that you have provided here certainly works. I don't know about making it an official article in the "Articles" section of this site, if that is what you mean. You could talk to Ian about that.

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Postby aviationwiz on Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:22 pm

blakerwry wrote:here's what I made http://cooling.howto.dns2go.com/

what is the best way to integrate it into this site?


Nice article!
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Postby blakerwry on Mon Mar 31, 2003 5:49 am

You guys can go here http://howto.dns2go.com/ if you want to see some other things I've done.
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