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Direct CD without ECDC?

Easy Media Creator, Toast, RecordNow, MyDVD, WinOnCD, DLA, etc.

Postby dodecahedron on Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:57 pm

WhoMe? wrote:Haven't tried UDFreader yet, but it will just work to see the files, right, you can't copy files from the CD?

no. if you install roxio's UDF Reader and it works, you will be able to see the files and copy them to the hard drive. there's no such thing as "seeing" a file but not being able to copy it (when things aren't broken, of course :x )

WhoMe? wrote:There's no removing DCD alone, just the whole ECDC package. I did find, though, an option to 'repair' the app and tried that, and immediately after restart pressing the eject button worked. I put in another CD and the same thing occurred--couldn't eject by any means.

so remove the whole package and reinstall it.
and although i don't like this, if the worst comes to the worst, then do this with each CD you have - put it in the old computer, read the contents off to the hard drive, get the CD stuck in the burner, reboot the system to get it out etc. etc., as long as this actually works and you manage to copy your files off the CD to the hard drive. (which i presume it does, you didn't say so explicitly in your previous post) and back up to a new CD like i suggested in my previous post.

sorry can't help you out with more info about how to uninstall ECDC/DCD from your win98 box. i'm not familiar with ECDC/DCD, i don't know anything beyond Control Panel -> Uninstall program. but try that and a reinstall, maybe it will work (i mean no more CD getting stuck after a reinstall)?? if not then try some of that more exotic stuff.

or try some of those recovery tools mentioned in the other DCD thread i linked to in a previous post (there were quite a few) maybe some of them will work.

hopefully someone more familiar with Easy CD Creator can chip in...anyone?
sigh...wish Inertia was here (again!) :cry:
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Postby KCK on Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:53 am

WhoMe?:

Before posting this message, I saw dodecahedron's latest replay. Although some of his (good) advices coincide with mine, I decided not to edit my original post. So here it is.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I've stopped using DCD a long time ago, but maybe I could help.

If I understood correctly, your top priority is retrieving data from your old DCD formatted "unclosed" discs (CD-R and DVD-R, although you also mentioned CD-RW). Afterwards, you would like to get your XP box and your wife's 98SE box back in shape, but let's deal with the first issue for now.

The most natural way would be to try to read your discs in the same environment they were created in, i.e., your old box with its original version of DCD and the burner(s). Have you tried this already? If not, is it feasible to recreate the old environment? To this end, you would need the original ECDC installation disc and subsequent updates (if any), as well as the old burner(s). Of course, you would have to remove your latest DCD updates first, but I think this is doable (see below). Yet another obstacle would be if you installed other burning programs or plugins in the meantime. For instance, you mentioned "another burner (audio converter) and Real Player + components". I don't know what this "another burner" means, but the burning plugins for various versions of RealOne Player may conflict with DCD. So all such software would have to be removed as well.

BTW, which burners were used to create those discs? Could you tell us what burners are now on your XP and 98SE boxes?

Now, back to what you did before. After you copied a "bad" disc on Friday, why didn't you try to copy the remaining discs? If your old box has a small HDD, you could re-burn each disc to ISO as advised by dodecahedron before copying the next one. Alternatively, you could network your boxes to transfer the copied files to your XP box, which probably has a larger HDD. Note that, even with ejection problems, going back to the Friday configuration is a second option for retrieving your data.

The third option suggested by dodecahedron is to install the UDF Reader on your old box to copy your old discs to the HDD (if it "sees" a file, Explorer can copy this file!). If you have an old version of UDF Reader, I would try it first; otherwise you will need the latest version from Roxio. If you also have a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive on your old box, you may try to read the old discs in this drive as well.

As for your final question on uninstalling ECDC and DCD, my information is outdated, but here it is for what it's worth. First, you should post the dir output for C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS, as well as the results of "dir cd*.dll" for C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM.

Old versions of ECDC, DCD and UDF Reader tended to install the following drivers in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS:

acbhlpr.vxd, cdr4vsd.vxd, cdralvsd.vxd, cdrpwd.vxd, cdudf.vxd, cdudfrw.vxd, udfreadr.vxd

and the following DLLs in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM:

cdr4dll.dll, cdral.dll, cdrtc.dll.

Hence you could change their extensions to .vx_ and .dl_. Then you may delete their registry entries manually, or use RegCleaner from

http://www.vtoy.fi/jv16/shtml/regcleaner.shtml

As for ASPI, they installed C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\aspienum.vxd, replaced apix.vxd in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS, and winaspi.dll and wnaspi32.dll in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM. Instead of retrieving the original 98SE ASPI layer, it may be easier to use ForceASPI from

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/cdr_s ... rcaspi.cfm

Going back to your final three questions, you may handle cdr4dll.dll, cdral.dll, cdrtc.dll and cdr4vsd.vxd as outlined above. Similarly, change the extensions of aspienum.vxd and apix.vxd to .vx_ before cleaning the registry and running ForceASPI. Leave atapchng.vxd, necatapi.vxd, scsi1hlp.vxd and torisan3.vxd as they are. You may remove the renamed .vx_ and .dl_ files, as well as the Adaptec/Shared folder, once everything works.

To sum up, you should explore all these options carefully, even if your wife is impatient to regain her box! :P
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Postby WhoMe? on Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:42 pm

KCK and dodecahedron,

Just wanted to update you a bit. I finally got ECDC 5 Plt completely uninstalled from wife's machine (as well as Real Player and another burning app). Several attempts to install just DCD failed--don't ask me why? All she wanted was the ability to drag and drop files to CD, so I resorted to the old ECDC 3.5 that came with the system. It does work, and, of course, the disks do eject without problem.

As posted previously, I finally got a DCD installation from my ECDC 5 disk to work on my system (without ECDC). I can now read my DVD-R/RAM's, some of the old CD-R's created on wife's system and any of the CD-R/W's which I had created on my XP system with DCD from the ECDC 5 plt installation which was working before all my problems started. I still cannot read any of the disks created on wife's 98 system using same ECDC 5 installation disk.

KCK wrote:The most natural way would be to try to read your discs in the same environment they were created in, i.e., your old box with its original version of DCD and the burner(s). Have you tried this already?


I was never able to read some of those old CD-R's, created on wife's system, with the identical environment, don't know why. Apparently, the ones that I had just inserted in the new system's burner and attempted to read got screwed up good.

KCK wrote:The third option suggested by dodecahedron is to install the UDF Reader on your old box to copy your old discs to the HDD


After uninstalling ECDC 5 plt from her box, I first installed just the UDF reader--it would not read my my otherwise unreadable old disks. Then I installed ECDC 3.5, with which some of the old disks had been created--no go on my problem CD-R's which had been created with her ECDC 3.5 or those susequently created with her ECDC 5. I had already tried those disks with the Roxio UDF reader on my XP, and it did not read the disks.

There were also some problem CD-RW's which were DCD-formatted in her burner. They could not be read on my XP or her 98SE. I tried formatting one with her DCD 3.5, and it ran through 40 minutes of seeming formatting, but did not actually format at all.

I tried to format another of those old CD-RW's on my XP, and DCD seeminly started a format but after giving it over an hour to format, I gave up on it and tried to cancel out and close DCD. The system froze and had to be powered down. Tried another format with same result.

KCK wrote:Now, back to what you did before. After you copied a "bad" disc on Friday, why didn't you try to copy the remaining discs?


Indeed I did. Copied that one to HD, then it would not eject, and everything was downhill from there--don't know why.

I do appreciate all the time you guys have devoted to my issues. If I've omitted some of the details in the sequence of all the things I've done to address the problems (and the above is just the latest things tried), or raised other questions, please excuse me, as I am weary with the Roxio saga, ready to move on and have pleasantly settled back into some productive work for a change! Later, when I get some time, I will explore some data recovery options, but it appears to me that those CD-R's from the old 98 system have been hopelessly wrecked. I will post back if have something positive and informative to report.
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:28 pm

WhoMe? wrote:Then I installed ECDC 3.5, with which some of the old disks had been created--no go on my problem CD-R's which had been created with her ECDC 3.5 or those susequently created with her ECDC 5. I had already tried those disks with the Roxio UDF reader on my XP, and it did not read the disks.

Whoa! WHOA!! WHOA!!!
first, this is the first time you mention that some of the bad discs were created with Easy CD Creator, not DCD!!!!
this is something completely different!
such CDs should be readable without any special software installed, neither DCD nor UDFReader, and definitely not ECDC!!! on either system!
second (and i should have said this before) you don't need UDFReader on WinXP! XP has built in capabilities for reading UDF CDs.

WhoMe? wrote:Indeed I did. Copied that one to HD, then it would not eject, and everything was downhill from there--don't know why.

your replies are somewhat obscure.
it's still not clear if you reburned the CD that you did manage to copy to the hard drive, as i have suggested previously.
and it's not clear if you did the same with other discs - copy them to hard drive, get the computer stuck, reboot, etc. etc.

anyway, good luck.
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Postby KCK on Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:25 am

WhoMe?:

Glad to hear some progress has occured, at least for your wife's box! :D

I'm afraid you may be right that the old CD-Rs could have been screwed up by the new system's burner. Usually packet writers try to correct unreadable discs, but this may lead to further damage. It is safer to read "foreign" discs in a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive.

To retrieve data from the old CD-Rs, as suggested by dodecahedron several times, you may first try to copy them to HD on your wife's box, one by one, even if succesive reboots must be done. This is still much simpler than using data recovery software.

As for re-using the old CD-RW discs, before reformatting you could do a full erase in ECDC (try both boxes). However, I wouldn't trust discs which failed previously.

I agree with dodecahedron that your replies are quite obscure. Of course you may be frustrated, and your setup is quite complex (two boxes, God knows how many burners, several versions of DCD, etc), but please understand that in such cases it is better to report as much information as you can, since it is easier for us to discard irrelevant information than for you to decide what is relevant.

dodecahedron:

I could be wrong, but I bet that when WhoMe? wrote "discs created with ECDC x", he meant "discs created by DCD from the ECDC x installation disc".

As for XP capabilities, SP1 introduced UDF 1.50 support, but I'm not sure this includes "unclosed" CD-Rs produced by DCD.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:48 am

KCK wrote:I could be wrong, but I bet that when WhoMe? wrote "discs created with ECDC x", he meant "discs created by DCD from the ECDC x installation disc".

quite true. hadn't thought about that.

KCK wrote:As for XP capabilities, SP1 introduced UDF 1.50 support, but I'm not sure this includes "unclosed" CD-Rs produced by DCD.

i have read unclosed UDF discs (formatted and writted by DCD 4 i think) on my winXP non SP1 box without any drivers.
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Postby KCK on Fri Feb 07, 2003 2:13 pm

dodecahedron:

Support for UDF 1.50 was mentioned in release notes for SP1 at the end of August 2002; however, I can no longer find these documents, and the current MS documents don't specify when UDF 1.50 was included in XP. One way of checking is to try reading an InCD non-MRW formatted disc on a clean XP box without SP1.

I don't know whether DCD 4 uses UDF 1.50 or 1.02.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:05 pm

sorry, don't know (or don't remember) what's the difference between UDF 1.02 and 1.50.

however, as i've said, i've been able to read a DCD 4 formatted/writted CDRW disc on my XP without any UDF driver.
so presumable the same must be true for DCD 5 as well.
my point - no need to install a UDF Reader on XP (non SP1).
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Postby WhoMe? on Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:39 pm

dodecahedron wrote:Whoa! WHOA!! WHOA!!!
first, this is the first time you mention that some of the bad discs were created with Easy CD Creator, not DCD!!!!
this is something completely different!


Really, I did not mean did get you so worked up, there. :wink:

KCK wrote:I could be wrong, but I bet that when WhoMe? wrote "discs created with ECDC x", he meant "discs created by DCD from the ECDC x installation disc".


Bingo! You got it.

I tried to warn you when I wrote:

"If I've omitted some of the details in the sequence of all the things I've done to address the problems (and the above is just the latest things tried), or raised other questions, please excuse me, as I am weary with the Roxio saga, ready to move on..."

OK, let me try this again. Yes, I did follow dodecahedron excellent advice and reburned that ONE (1) disc I managed to copy to the HD of my wife's machine.

KCK wrote:To retrieve data from the old CD-Rs, as suggested by dodecahedron several times, you may first try to copy them to HD on your wife's box, one by one, even if succesive reboots must be done. This is still much simpler than using data recovery software.


Again, as I said before:

"Indeed I did. Copied that one to HD, then it would not eject, and everything was downhill from there--don't know why."

There was no way to 'copy them to HD...one by one...' As you said KCK, this has been a very complicated situation. Originally, I had been able to read that 'ONE' bad disk--and was not ABLE to read more than one!--and then it would not eject. I solved that problem, got the disks to eject once I cleaned ECDC out and installed DCD 3.5 on her box.

When I said "everything was downhill from there" I was making a long story short, but from that point on the issue was not one of being able to copy one by one to HD, then burn to new disks--it was an issue on not being able to read ANY MORE of those bad disks--and please don't ask me why!!

I really do understand the importance of reporting everything I can think of to facilitate diagnosis, and I believe I did, though perhaps not as clearly and logically as could have been. I appoligize for wasting so much time on this; you guys have gone 'above and beyond the call of duty' in trying to help me, and I truly do appreciate it.

I know where to come the next time there is a CD problem, and at the onset of the problem. At this point, I have ECDC out of my system, in more ways than one, and I don't have any more time to devote to this fiasco.
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Postby KCK on Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:55 pm

WhoMe?:

Thanks for the feedback. I guess your case is closed, although you could still try the recovery utilities when you have more time.

dodecahedron:

Since I don't have discs formatted by DCD 5, I can't check.

However, I did check with InCD. Before SP1, discs formatted by InCD to UDF 1.50 (non-CD-MRW) couldn't be read by the DVD-ROM drive on my XP Pro box; with SP1, they are readable. But even with SP1, CD-MRW discs couldn't be read until I installed EasyWriteReader.

I believe you that pre-SP1 XP can read natively DCD 4 discs. Still one can't be sure about DCD 5 without checking. Further, I doubt if discs formatted by DCD 5 to CD-MRW can be read natively on XP, with or without SP1, so in such cases it might be necessary to install Roxio's UDF Reader.

Of course our discussion has little to do with WhoMe?'s setup, but clarification of such issues could help others.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:59 pm

@WhoMe?
i guess you got more help than you bargained for! :wink:
glad to have been of (some) help. :)

@KCK:
i suppose all your comments are correct.
i've never done Mt. Rainier.
when i have more spare time i'll continue fiddling and experimenting with InCD and DCD, we'll have more fun! :o 8)
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