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RW Discs Getting Marked Read Only - InCD 3.5.2.4

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RW Discs Getting Marked Read Only - InCD 3.5.2.4

Postby Daiwa on Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:38 am

InCD version is 3.5.2.4 on Win2K. I attempted to delete a number of files & folders from an MRW formatted CD-RW disc that I have been using for some time as a backup *large floppy* and during the delete operation I got an error message saying InCD couldn't delete a particular folder because the *files on this CD-ROM are Read Only. You cannot copy or move files over to this CD-ROM.* :oops: Of course, now it won't let me write to it, even though there was about 183MB of free space before the error. I had run into this problem with InCD several versions ago, but not since about 3.5.2.2, maybe even 1 or 2 iterations before that. Is there a way to toggle off the Write Protect or Read Only setting or is this disc just done now? :-?

I had updated to 4.0.1.0 a couple of weeks ago, but after seeing all the problems described here, and before any of this happened, I uninstalled it and did a clean re-install of 3.5.2.4. Had been using this version for quite awhile without any apparent problems, even with large file copy operations. Installed W2K SP4 after re-installing 3.5.2.4, but no other interim configuration changes. I don't think SP4 puts back any of the Roxio stuff, but don't know for sure. I had removed the WMP plugins & other Roxio files & the Iomega leftovers quite some time ago, solving the BSOD problems that the conflicting files were causing at the time.

Appreciate any advice. Thanks. :)
Daiwa
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:52 pm

4.0.1.0 Leftovers

Postby Daiwa on Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:18 am

I looked through the 4.0.1.0 thread again & maybe the problem is in part the leftovers from 4.0.1.0 discussed there. I had also noted the read/write slowdown, even after reverting to 3.5.2.4 - maybe the slowdown is related to the leftovers, too. It's hard for a more or less layperson like me to understand how such basic low level stuff could be so screwed up in a general release of the software, even if they do call it a beta in the fine print. :x And to learn Ahead can't even figure out how to remove the software & registry keys their own program writes is a hoot. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in the quality of their work. Having their software on your rig is just one step away from having a virus you can't get rid of. Very nice. :evil:
Daiwa
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:52 pm

Postby KCK on Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:16 am

Before blaming InCD 4.x, it's better to check basic things first.

If you didn't have deletion problems with InCD 3.52.40 earlier on this disc and other MRW discs, then most probably this disc has developed errors.

To re-use it, you may try to erase and format it again.

After copying your data to an HDD, do full-erase via Nero | Recorder | EraseReWritable and format your disc to MRW. Leave the disc in the burner long enough for background formatting to finish (it takes about 11 min on a 10x disc with my LTR48125W); to check, eject the disc, call Nero, insert the disc and look at Recorder | Medium-Info.

Tell us the figures reported by InCD or Explorer for the used space, free space and capacity; if the free space were smaller than usual, it would indicate physical errors on the disc, in which case the disc should be discarded. If the disc looks OK, copy your data back to it, and see what happens when you delete some files and folders, write to it, etc.

Of course, to check if your problems are isolated to this particular disc, you should try other discs of good quality (e.g., Verbatim) or at least the same brand which normally works with your burner.
KCK
CD-RW Player
 
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Read Only

Postby Daiwa on Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:04 am

Thanks, KCK.

I'll go through that process tonight & report back. Total space reported before all this was 574MB, BTW. And the disc brand is GQ/Great Quality.

But another question or 2: If the disc indeed has developed *errors*, is this write-protect thing *by design* in the software? In other words, does InCD recognize this and *protect* you by locking down the disc & preventing further writes? If yes, seems like a different error message and remedy would be in order. If not, what is it about physical errors in the disc that causes InCD to do this (if you know)?

Thanks again for your help. The kind of support you routinely provide here is terrific and much appreciated. :D

Daiwa
Daiwa
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:52 pm

Postby KCK on Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:51 pm

Since your capacity was 574MB, I guess it was an 80min/700MB disc formatted to UDF 1.50 (i.e., non-MRW), for which I get used space 51,200 bytes (50KB), free space 600,258,560 bytes (572MB) and capacity 600,309,760 bytes (572MB). The figures differ slightly with InCD versions and media brands, so in your case you should compare two discs of the same brand.

The "read-only" error was reported by users of InCD 3.x under various circumstances, not only stemming from media problems. I've never seen it on my boxes. I don't know if preventing writes to troublesome discs occured by design in InCD 3.x, but it is a feature of InCD 4.x, where a different icon should indicate that a disc is mounted in read-only mode (probably still not implemented).
KCK
CD-RW Player
 
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Formatting Results

Postby Daiwa on Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:32 am

KCK -

The disc in question formatted without any problem. I'm certain I was incorrect about the capacity in my previous post. This disc formatted to 539MB, which is the same as each of my other MRW formatted discs. Explorer & InCD report the same capacity. I'm able to write to it without problems, so far. I take it the disc is OK?

If so, do we know why this write-protect thing occurs? Why it would occur during a delete operation, of all things? It is a bit frustrating, needless to say. :roll:

Thanks for your help. :)
Daiwa
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:52 pm

Postby KCK on Fri Jul 04, 2003 5:42 am

For an 80min/700MB disc formatted to MRW by InCD 3.51.91, I had used space 49,152 bytes (48KB), free space 565,657,600 bytes (539MB), capacity 565,706,752 bytes (539MB). Note that the MB (or rather MiB) values may be rounded, so one should compare the numbers of bytes. The main point here is that for discs of the same brand, formatted with the same versions of InCD and the burner's firmware, any differences should ring a warning bell.

Your disc may be OK now, but I wouldn't trust it too much in view of the past problems, whose nature might have been intermittent (dust, finger prints, etc.) or more serious (physical deterioration).

In general, I can only advise you to handle and store your InCD discs with extra care. Using quality media should help as well (although I've had very few problems with cheap media).

I don't know any details behind the write-protect mechanism. One could peruse MRW specifications, but we don't know whether specific firmwares conform to these specifications. Note that a delete operation also involves writing to update the file system.
KCK
CD-RW Player
 
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Bytes

Postby Daiwa on Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:36 pm

Sorry for not posting the detail. My capacity after formatting was exactly the same as you reported - 565,706,752bytes - and same as my other discs.

Would be nice to hear from one of the Ahead guys as to the technical aspects of this & whether it is something amenable to a fix, or for them to acknowledge it and put it on their fix list. On another of my systems with a Toshiba CD-RW, using the same media & InCD version, there is one specific file, and that one file only, that won't copy when I do a backup. Happens to have a filename of GENERIC.RPT. I'll get a message saying that file couldn't be copied because the CD-RW is read-only. Strangely, I can then rerun the same drag-drop copy operation, this time excluding GENERIC.RPT from the copy, and it goes without a hitch. Ah, the mysteries of life. :-?

Thanks again. :wink:
Daiwa
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:52 pm

Postby KCK on Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:40 pm

In general, it's better to report used and free spaces, since capacity = used space + free space.

I'm not sure what you would like Ahead to fix, especially since updates of InCD 3.x are quite unlikely.

Did you try to copy GENERIC.RPT as a single file via Explorer? In general, are you doing drag&drop of several folders via Explorer, or using some specialized backup software? I presume you are trying to copy GENERIC.RPT from your HDD to an InCD disc which already has another version of GENERIC.RPT. What happens if you delete GENERIC.RPT from the InCD disc before doing the backup?
KCK
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:55 pm

Read Only

Postby Daiwa on Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:36 pm

KCK -

Free & Unused space were also the same as yours (after the reformat).

I would hope this is at least looked into by Ahead so that it can be *fixed* in InCD X.x if it is fixable. The remedy is a bit painful when this happens. Whether the problem is related to the medium or the software, InCD should at least do a better job of reporting what the problem is & conveying what the remedy should be, not just locking the CD down as read-only, "Next customer please." Seems extreme that the only options are nuclear - reformat or run the frisbee-conversion utility.

Trying to drag-drop copy the individual file also gives the same message, and it is not a read-only file. And if the file were indeed read-only, I'd expect the Explorer message asking if the file should be replaced, not an InCD message saying the CD is read only (which, in this case, it is actually not). In this particular operation, I do a drag-drop copy of a folder with multiple subfolders via Explorer. As I recall, this happened on the first attempt at copying GENERIC.RPT, but I'll try deleting it before the next backup copy operation & see what happens. Most of the time, backup/copy operations go without a hitch - it's just that the occasional *hitch* is more like Mt. St. Helens than Mt. Ranier (bad joke).

Thanks
Daiwa
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:52 pm


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