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Dolphin Longevity Tests

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Postby MediumRare on Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:33 pm

Interesting comparison- almost all show higher PIF counts in the newer tests.

This surprises me a bit. I haven't burned neatrly as much stuff as you have, but I've occasionally retested a lot of discs, e.g. after firmware change or with new KProbe or CD-Speed versions. And I haven't really observed such effects with my "disreputable" LiteOn SOHW-1213S (@1653S).

Now you've used 2 different tools for the test. I know that KProbe and CD-Speed show essentially the same results on LiteOn drives (except for "known idiosyncracies" with averages). DIP, on the other hand, had problems with LiteOn drives in at least one version. I'd like to see a comparison with the same version of DIP for some of these discs (e.g. the first one, where the curves are similar, but the DIP sums are only half as big), just to eliminate this as a factor in the tests (once burned, twice shy :-? ).

Could you say a couple of words as to how you've stored these discs? Jewel case? cake box? on the floor? I'm sure the humidity in Vancouver is nothing like Singapore (and the temperature isn't either).

Thanks for the effort!

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:35 am

The discs were all stored in a single cake box, sitting on a shelf near the ceiling of my room, where the chances of direct sunlight were next to none (although not entirely impossible). Frankly, I rarely even have my room LIGHT on, and my window is covered with a darkend shower on top of my white drapes, to keep as much light out as possible. I like to work under the cover of darkness :wink:

Unfortunately, my original testing was done with DVDInfoPro, which means the jitter lines don't show up at all. I would have used DVDInfoPro AGAIN this time, but getting the exact same version of the software I used before is pretty much impossible. With some discs, the difference is so significant, even the differences of software and firmware can't account for it (like with Sony 16x DVD-Rs and Prodisc 8x DVD+Rs).

I am happy to say I've recovered ANOTHER spindle of burned discs from my original BenQ DW1620 review, which I'll be doing similar testing on.

I may not be writing drive reviews, but I'm far from being dead when it comes to testing :wink:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby RJW on Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:42 am

But in some cases you see things get messy.
The differences with MKM dual layer could be related to software and firmware combinations. So does Ricohjpnr02 and one of those TDK disc's which seem to have gottne lower errors at some points over time.

You can't compare total errors because of different sample sizes.

So in quite some cases it would be really nice to have the stuff rescanned under same conditions.

But in some cases -> Prodisc it's obvious.
And with sony16D1 yeah it looks really like it screwed up I would personally say. Still some folks are having doubts of different sample sets (software) + firmware !
Hmmm
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:07 pm

I'm currently working on a new set of discs which I previously tested with the LiteON SOHW-832s with firmware VS0A, and K-Probe. The new tests will be done with the LiteON SOHW-832s running firmware VS0J and Nero CD/DVD Speed.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby RJW on Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:10 am

Couldn't you use the old stuff ? It would be better for comparision.
Trying to make something "foolproof" only forces nature to make a better fool.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:02 am

RJW wrote:Couldn't you use the old stuff ? It would be better for comparision.


By "new set" I actually meant a different set. It's about 50 DVDs or so burned for my DW1620 review, all burned in Sept of 2004. It'll take me several more days of testing, but the results will be worth the wait I think!!

Here's a sneak peak :wink:
Attachments
Fuji4xDVD-R_(Burn_2004_09_05)(Test_2006_06_17)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg
Fuji4xDVD-R_(Burn_2004_09_05)(Test_2006_06_17)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg
Fuji4xDVD-R_(Burn_2004_09_05)(Test_2006_06_17)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg (74.01 KiB) Viewed 3323 times
Fuji4xDVD-R_(Burn_2004_09_05)(Test_2004_09_05)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg
Fuji4xDVD-R_(Burn_2004_09_05)(Test_2004_09_05)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg
Fuji4xDVD-R_(Burn_2004_09_05)(Test_2004_09_05)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg (73.29 KiB) Viewed 3319 times
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:15 pm

Again, an interesting comparison, with PIF count decreasing!

However, there are so many firmware generations between these scans- could you do a check with a new scan using VS0A on that disc? Normally, the error reporting properties don't change that much, but I have seen drastic changes with my SOHW-1213S!

And why are you saving the scans as JPEG's and not PNG's? :o

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:53 pm

MediumRare wrote:Again, an interesting comparison, with PIF count decreasing!

However, there are so many firmware generations between these scans- could you do a check with a new scan using VS0A on that disc? Normally, the error reporting properties don't change that much, but I have seen drastic changes with my SOHW-1213S!

And why are you saving the scans as JPEG's and not PNG's? :o

G


Think you can rustle me up a copy of VS0A? I went looking but couldn't find it anywhere :( I'm also planning on going back to K-Probe if I can find the same version as I used.

regarding using JPG's and not .png's... it's because the original scans were done in .jpgs (no idea why I did that), and it just works out easier for me when saving the files, to have them with the same extension.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby MediumRare on Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:49 am

Firmware: http://codeguys.rpc1.org/firmwares/dvdr ... .stock.rar

Kprobe: http://www.cdrlabs.com/kprobe/index.php

If you do use KProbe, save the scan results as RAW data as well and save the text-file summary- they will be useful in future. :wink:

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:03 am

Thanks MediumRare!! Somehow I knew you'd be able to help me on this :wink:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:31 am

Here's a Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R disc I burned in late September of 2004, and scanned in early October and then again tonight. These results scare me a lot :o
Attachments
TaiyoYuden8xDVD+R_(Burn_2004_09_22)(Test_2006_06_22)_LiteONSOHW-832s.PNG
TaiyoYuden8xDVD+R_(Burn_2004_09_22)(Test_2006_06_22)_LiteONSOHW-832s.PNG
TaiyoYuden8xDVD+R_(Burn_2004_09_22)(Test_2006_06_22)_LiteONSOHW-832s.PNG (11.26 KiB) Viewed 3290 times
TaiyoYuden8xDVD+R_(Burn_2004_09_22)(Test_2004_10_11)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg
TaiyoYuden8xDVD+R_(Burn_2004_09_22)(Test_2004_10_11)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg
TaiyoYuden8xDVD+R_(Burn_2004_09_22)(Test_2004_10_11)_LiteONSOHW-832s.jpeg (75.42 KiB) Viewed 3290 times
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby [buck] on Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:35 am

Yeah, very scary. Myself, I've had RICOHJPNR01 go bad like that in only 6 months :o
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Postby MediumRare on Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:46 am

OUCH! Is that one of the discs with bonding problems?

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:32 am

MediumRare wrote:OUCH! Is that one of the discs with bonding problems?

G


I could test that... but then I wouldn't be able to document further degridation :(
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby RJW on Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:40 am

You could check to see if there was initially some space.
Try to press the innerpolycarbonte circle slightly. You should be able to hear from the sound if there is space.

Not as good as the other methods but still it can help and is non destructive !
Trying to make something "foolproof" only forces nature to make a better fool.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:55 am

RJW wrote:You could check to see if there was initially some space.
Try to press the innerpolycarbonte circle slightly. You should be able to hear from the sound if there is space.

Not as good as the other methods but still it can help and is non destructive !


My Nails aren't long enough right now to do that justice. I tried and I think there may have been some space, but it's hard to be 100% sure. Give me some time to grow some nails and check back with me :wink:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby [buck] on Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:55 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:My Nails aren't long enough right now to do that justice. I tried and I think there may have been some space, but it's hard to be 100% sure. Give me some time to grow some nails and check back with me :wink:

Couldn't you use something like a pen? Or maybe I'm not understanding this method correctly :-?
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Postby RJW on Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:42 pm

No nails needed.

Just press polycarbonate and see if it squeeks.

nails means pulling means no additional measurements because exit disc.
Trying to make something "foolproof" only forces nature to make a better fool.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:55 pm

I didn't hear any squeaking...
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby longevity-freak on Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:11 am

dolphin,

I have referred to your test results on Page 68 of my Central Database.
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Postby MacClipper on Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:07 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:Prodisc 8x DVD+R
PRODISCR03
Made in Taiwan
Originally Burned Oct 09 2005
Originally Tested Oct 09 2005
Followup Test June 16 2006


Looks totally horrendous, I have had much better luck with my Smartbuy 8x (same dye) - stored in a cakebox, no special care given. Which brand are these Prodiscs? Think I better go check my LG branded ones too.
June 2005, Smartbuy AAA Silver (Prodisc R03) 8x@16x

You can see other surviving media here too,
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:32 am

that particular Prodisc DVD+R was sold as a Prodisc OEM 8x DVD+R, and purchased from blankmedia.ca.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:35 am

longevity-freak wrote:dolphin,

I have referred to your test results on Page 68 of my Central Database.


Thanks! I appreciate that :)

I have a whole bunch more goodies on the way too, which I'll probably make a new thread for, as I'll be doing a MUCH better job of the comparisons (same drive, same software, same software version, and same firmware!!). Probably close to ~50 discs this time :D (maybe even some CD-Rs).
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
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Postby longevity-freak on Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:41 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:
longevity-freak wrote:dolphin,

I have referred to your test results on Page 68 of my Central Database.


Thanks! I appreciate that :)

I have a whole bunch more goodies on the way too, which I'll probably make a new thread for, as I'll be doing a MUCH better job of the comparisons (same drive, same software, same software version, and same firmware!!). Probably close to ~50 discs this time :D (maybe even some CD-Rs).


No problem. :)
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Postby MacClipper on Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:47 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:that particular Prodisc DVD+R was sold as a Prodisc OEM 8x DVD+R, and purchased from blankmedia.ca.


Hmm, even the LG branded media scans OK here,
Click
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