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DRU-710A

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DRU-710A

Postby Dolphin on Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:35 am

I just bought a DRU-710A without doing any research and stumbled into this forum (nice!) while trying to find info on what is the best brand of DVD media to use (which I still haven't done).

My questions are these:

When I read the review on the DRU-710A it was only a 7/10 for a number of reasons. But the one that really bothers me is the "Questionable writing quality with some DVD±R media” What is PI/PIF?

What is the best new DVD Burner out there at this time?

What is the best brand and type of media to burn on?

Looks like I found another great forum!!! =D> =D> =D>

TIA
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Re: DRU-710A

Postby Bhairav on Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:11 pm

Dolphin wrote:I just bought a DRU-710A without doing any research and stumbled into this forum (nice!) while trying to find info on what is the best brand of DVD media to use (which I still haven't done).

My questions are these:

When I read the review on the DRU-710A it was only a 7/10 for a number of reasons. But the one that really bothers me is the "Questionable writing quality with some DVD±R media” What is PI/PIF?

What is the best new DVD Burner out there at this time?

What is the best brand and type of media to burn on?

Looks like I found another great forum!!! =D> =D> =D>

TIA


Welcome to CDRLabs :D
PI/PIF - Parity Inner Errors/Parity Inner Failures. Basically, these are errors on a DVD disc, which define how well a particular drive can read the disc under examination. Different drives will differ when reading the same disc.
For a more complete explanation, read this:
Download the ECMA 267 Standard for DVD-ROM, the ECMA 337 Standard for DVD+R/RW and the ECMA 338 Standard for DVD-R/RW at http://www.ecma-international.org if you want to look at the standards for yourself. Here is some data from the ECMA standards (same for DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW):

Random errors:

A row of an ECC Block that has at least 1 byte in error constitutes a PI error. In any 8
consecutive ECC Blocks the total number of PI errors before correction shall not exceed 280.

Here we see what a PI error is defined as a row in an ECC block having 1 byte or more containing errors. And that the sum of PI errors in 8 ECC blocks after each other should not exceed 280 PI errors.

But what is a row and what is an ECC block? Again we refer to the ECMA standards. We do not copy and paste everything but if interested look in the ECMA standards. A row is 182 bytes long where the last 10 bytes contain PI (Parity Inner) information. An ECC block is 208 rows long where the last 16 rows contain the PO (Parity Outer) information. This gives us a maximum possible PI error amount of 208 errors per block and for 8 blocks after each other this sum is of course 8 times higher giving a maximum possible amount of 1664 PI-8 errors. In practical use a disc with 1664 PI-8 errors is unreadable.

According to our tests the specified max PI-8 sum of 280 for good discs seems to be a good guideline, as some readers have problems reading discs when the PI-8 errors is over 300 and most players starts to have problems when the PI-8 error level reaches 600 or more.

But what are the PO errors that K-Probe reports? Actually the PO errors that K-Probe reports is the Parity Inner uncorrectable errors, meaning errors left after PI correction. Only the ECMA 337 standard describes the Parity Inner uncorrectable errors. So how is a Parity Inner uncorrectable error defined? Here are what ECMA 337 states:

“If a row of an ECC Block as defined in 13.3 contains more than 5 erroneous bytes, the row is said to be “PI-uncorrectable”.”

In theory an ECC block may in the worst case have 208 PI uncorrectable errors since every ECC block is 208 rows long. But the ECMA 337 standard goes further and specifies the max amount of accepted PI uncorrectable errors allowed on a good disc:

“- In any ECC Block the number of PI-uncorrectable rows should not exceed 4.”

This is where K-Probe gives us problems as for PI errors it have to be set to a PI/PO sum of 8 ECC blocks to show results that compares to the standard, but for PI uncorrectable errors (Called PO in K-Probe) the PI/PO sum have to be set to a sum of 1 ECC block.

A guideline is to calculate the Parity Inner Uncorrectable errors to 8 ECC sum, which is max 32 (4 x 8) Parity Inner uncorrectable errors, but now we can’t be sure if one of the 8 ECC blocks exceeds the specifications. But if the result exceeds 32 PI uncorrectable errors we know that at least one block have more than 4 PI uncorrectable errors.

But what makes a disc unreadable? A PO uncorrectable error will make the disc unreadable, but K-Probe does not display the PO uncorrectable errors.

Notice that there are other aspects such as disc reflectivity, jitter, tracking errors and so on that also will affect the readability of a DVD disc – but for this we do not have measuring equipment available.


Easier explanation on how to read the test results.

Maybe this got too technical, and you are wondering what to look for in Kprobe reports?

Use this as a guideline for good discs:

PI(Parity Inner): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 280 PI-8 errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceed 280.
PO(Parity Outer): No large areas on the disc should exceed 32 PO-8 (actually PI uncorrectable) errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceed 32.

And as always; lower is better

And look at the reading curve, a slight slowdown at the end is probably nothing to worry about, but huge bumps and slowdowns are not good.


Upto 8X speeds, all the drives are pretty much equal, but at 12X and 16X speeds, the Benq 1620 and the LG4163B seem to be the best drives, on Taiyo Yuden and Mitsubishi media.
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Postby Dolphin on Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:29 pm

Bhairav...

Thank you very much for the great info! :D

So what does everyone think... should I keep my Sony or trade it in for something else before my 30 days expires?

Also... are Taiyo Yuden and Mitsubishi media only available online or are they sold under different names that might be sold at Best Buy or CompUSA?

Thanks Again :D
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Postby diskdocx on Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:16 pm

I've been using the Sony DRU710a since the fall, and overall it is an excellent drive. Had some issues with write speeds until I got the DMA settings sorted out, but since then it has been fine.

I can't say I have noticed poor quality burns, but I have not bothered to try 12 or 16x speeds. Unless you are mass producing DVD's, you are probably better to burn at 4-8x anyway (which finishes a full DVD in 10-15 minutes roughly)

I have noticed that reliability on cheap media is sometimes an issue, but that may be the media not the burner. Have had no problems with Verbatim or Memorex media which is widely available where I live.
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:27 pm

Dolphin wrote:Also... are Taiyo Yuden and Mitsubishi media only available online or are they sold under different names that might be sold at Best Buy or CompUSA?

Taiyo Yuden (TY) and Mitsubishi are the manufacturers of the discs. Verbatim belongs to the Mitsubishi concern, and most DVD-media sold by Verbatim are made by Mitsubishi (MCC) or by third parties (CMC, MBI etc.) using MCC processes and quality standards (important). TY is sold under various brands, eg. Made in Japan Fuji or Verbatim Pastel. I live in Germany- so I can't say much more re. TY- it's very hard to find here. :evil:

G
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Postby Dolphin on Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:02 pm

Thank You Everyone! :D
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Postby btiger on Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:09 am

I have this burner for about 3 months, and to me it's an excellent burner, it's very quiet and comes with extra black face plate and full Nero software suites......and no what so ever problems since day one(except U need to upgrade the Nero 6.3 to 6.6 for free form Nero's web site). I paid US$50(incl tax) back then from a big box retail store, now it's only selling for about US$40!

I have the following media and they are great with this particular burner (still using the BY01 FW that came with the drive):

Fuji CDRs 48X (TY) @40X in less than 3 mins
Sony DVD+R 8X (SONY 011/2) @8X in less than 8.5 mins
Maxell DVD-R 8X (MXLRG03) @8X in less than 8.5 mins
Maxell DVD+RW 4X (RICOHJPN W11) @4X in less than 12.5 mins

I won't even bother with either the 12X or 16X this burner is capable of doing with DVD+R or 2.4X/4X for DL disc....
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Postby spryfly on Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:31 pm

the 710 is a rebranded liteon 1633/1653. imo it is one of the worst dvd burners in terms of quality on the market. again, imo it has two and only two redeeming qualities (with regards to dvd burning). 1. you can use kprobe with it. 2. with a speed hack it can rip dl disks at 12x. thesse two reasons are why i got one as a 3rd drive. it makes a very poor choice as a 1st drive. just my 2 cents...... :)
"Why? Said the spry little fly."

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Postby spryfly on Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:36 pm

btiger wrote: I won't even bother with either the 12X or 16X this burner is capable of doing with DVD+R


good thing you haven't cause you would find out rather quickly that it was a very bad idea......
"Why? Said the spry little fly."

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