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8x dvd+r optodisc are awesome

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8x dvd+r optodisc are awesome

Postby liteonrules on Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:03 pm

i just got the NEC 3500 AND OPTODISCS 8X dvd+r unbranded in the mail today and as soon as i got in the house, i couldn't wait to test it. my reaction was WOW! They burned at 12x and the error rates were awesome.
OPTODISCOR8 8x burned at 12x w/liggys firmware
PI MAX: 7 AVG: 0.53
PIF MAX: 2 AVG: 0.01
kprobe reading at 4x using LITEON 832S
NEC 2500A $20 10/04
NEC 3500AG for $47 4/05
NEC 3540 for $35 9/05
BENQ 1620 for $36 9//05
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:17 am

Yup, I've had good results with those as well :wink:
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Postby Ace on Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:17 am

I'm glad you folks are having good luck with the Optodisc DVD+R 8x, I haven't. I had some old 2x media left that was taking about 35 minutes per DVD.

I bought a Sony DRU-710A and the 8x optodisc. The 710A claims to be able to write up to DVD+R 16x.

When I first tried the optodisc DVD+R 8x with the firmware that shipped with the Sony, it recognised the 8x, and Nero said "burning at 8x" and I don't know, maybe it was burning at 8x for very short bursts with long pauses or something because it took over 50 minutes to burn, rather than the 8 minutes I had expected. I tried 6x and it took 48 minutes to burn.

Next I installed the latest DRU-710A firmware from Sony's website. Well the new firmware sort of "fixes" the problem. Now the drive won't even give me the option to burn at 8 or 6x, Nero now says the maximum burn speed with this drive in this media is 4x. Even that I'm not sure is working right, because it takes 28 minutes to burn a DVD at 4x, where should expect what, 16 minutes?

If anyone has suggestions I'd appreciate them, I have lots of PC experience but I'm a bit of a newbie with the DVD compatibility issues, (hence this is my first post in this group) this is really frustrating to me.
Last edited by Ace on Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby HardwareHarry on Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:07 pm

I have had the same good speed with NEC 3520A with standard 1.04 FW
and SONY 8x DVD+R who burns 12x with Nero 6608. =D>

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Re: 8x dvd+r optodisc are awesome

Postby Ace on Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:09 pm

liteonrules wrote:i just got the NEC 3500 AND OPTODISCS 8X dvd+r unbranded in the mail today and as soon as i got in the house, i couldn't wait to test it. my reaction was WOW! They burned at 12x and the error rates were awesome.


Well I may just have to buy an NEC, but when I looked up the 3500 I saw there is also a 3520 with better specs, and I'm wondering if I should buy that one instead? Then I saw Harry's post, apparently having luck with it, but I gather that the custom firmware for the 3500 may not be compatible with the 3520? Liteonrules, is that why you didn't get the 3520?? Again any suggestions for the newbie would be appreciated.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:38 pm

Ace:

Do you have DMA enabled? it looks like a drive/system issue, and not a media issue. Of course Sony drives are LiteON drives, and LiteON drives suck, so it might just be the drive :o
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Postby Ace on Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:37 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Ace:

Do you have DMA enabled? it looks like a drive/system issue, and not a media issue. Of course Sony drives are LiteON drives, and LiteON drives suck, so it might just be the drive :o


DR, Thanks, that was half my problem, I enabled DMA and burned the Optodisc 8x DVD+R at the maximum speed I could, which is only 4x, in 14 minutes! I was getting the 8x option from Nero before I "upgraded" the drive's firmware to the latest version, now I'm wishing I hadn't done that, and I just tried to find the older firmware versions on Sony's website and they only list the latest version for download. Now I just wish I could solve the other half of my problem which is to get the 8x option back like I had with the original drive firmware. I ran the Nero speed test and it says my system can burn at up to 24x, which I assume is HDD limited.

I'm sure you're right, the Sony drive sucks, but if I buy a NEC which I gather is better for high speed DVD+R writing, I still cant decide whether to buy the 3500 or the 3520,, since the 3520 seems to be cheaper and faster, yet I see so many recommendations for the 3500, perhaps it's because the 3520 just hasn't been out that long?
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Postby RJW on Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:44 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Ace:

Do you have DMA enabled? it looks like a drive/system issue, and not a media issue. Of course Sony drives are LiteON drives, and LiteON drives suck, so it might just be the drive :o


Well the last one (so search up the numbers but check the C't topic on the board.) of Lite On is ok. That one does suck on some media but on most stuff it actually works great.
Ohyeah K-probe test results probally sucks because it's a to good reader.
(98+% score on the mannipulated audiodev disc.)
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Postby Ace on Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:10 pm

Well I actually found an earlier firmware version, tried to install it and got the following:
"You already have the latest firmware installed, are you sure you want to continue?" (Installing an earlier version)
I clicked "Yes"
Then it responded "Unable to continue, please contact the Vendor"
Well it's probably a waste of time to contact Sony, their site does not list the Optodisc on their compatible media listing, so they will probably just re-iterate that.

RJW I did read a review that the DRU-710 should work fine with 8x or below, which was all I planned to use it for, so yes I thought it would be OK. The NEC seems to have the big advantage at speeds above 8x. Well somethings gotta give here, I guess I need an NEC simce I'm fresh out of ideas on getting this Sony to burn the Optodisc at the rated 8x speed.
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Postby MediumRare on Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:21 pm

Have a look at the codeguys' page- they have firmware for various LiteOn and OEM drives with cross-flashing enabled. You can upgrade, downgrade and crossflash your firmware. If you're feeling brave, you can also use their omnipatcher to change burning strategies (I don't).

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[edit]fixed some typos[/edit]
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Postby Ace on Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:49 pm

MediumRare,

First I tried Sony's tech support, and speaking of fortunetelling, or prophecy, I was right on my prediction that Sony Tech support told me to refer to their list of approved media (well that wasn't too hard to predict, was it?). But when I asked about going back to the original firmware, they stated "that's not possible". Therfore, I must caution against the advice I often see that says whenever you buy something, updrage to the latest firmware, bios, or whatever, maybe that helps some of the time but this isn't the first time I've been burned by it. I had Dell problems with one of their bios updates but unlike Sony, at least they let me go back to the bios versions that worked.

Harry's post got me thinking it might be worth trying the update to Nero 6.6 so I'm downloading that first, if that helps maybe I won't have to get too brave with the firmware?

But if that doesn't help I will definitely try the firmware so thanks very much for your suggestion mediumrare!
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Postby diskdocx on Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:56 pm

Before you do anything further I would suggest you uninstall all burning software, disable the Sony drive in the control panel, then reinstall it, then the software.

I upgraded from the Sony DRU500 to the 710, and the speeds were awful, (limited to 1x) until I reinstalled the burning programs. I'm not sure if you had a burner on the computer before installing the 710, but I would definitely start with these steps.
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Postby RJW on Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:42 am

Well Optodisc isn't the greatest media when it comes to support from the drive manufacturers.
On most japanese media (the recommended) stuff the SONY drive works.
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:03 am

Ace wrote:But when I asked about going back to the original firmware, they stated "that's not possible".

Actually, the CodeGuys have the original firmware there (in addition to some tweaked variants) but the flasher is modified so that some checks are disabled, e.g. for the version number. This allows you to go back to an earlier version (which isn't possible with the unmodified flasher).

Funny thing is that the Optodisc 8x DVD+R (OPTODISC OR8-000) are supported @8x for all LiteOn 1213S and 1633S firmware flavours (TS0n and BS0n and Sony BY0n series for the 710A), but only @4x for the 1653S (CSnn series). All these drives share essentially the same hardware. I think that the Sony BYXn firmware is actually based on 1653S firmware (very much like LiteOn-America fw BS41 for 1633S which does allow 8x) so they're taking over the restriction in this newer version.

I don't know why this writing speed has been capped, though. If you do go back to BYX2, try doing a burn @8x and make a quality scan with KProbe or CD Speed.

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Postby RJW on Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:43 am

It was probally capped back because of Optodiscs fluctuations in quality.
But I will aks this one to my friends of SONY next time I need to speak to them.

Point is that Optodisc can make very good media however they also seem to sell quite some media of questionable quality.
Now the last stuff we have seen tested many times in Europe and can be found in the cheap brands. Also this is the media which has given a lot of european folks the idea that Optodisc is quite crap cheap media.
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:29 pm

Well the only Optodisc I'd tried to date (MMore-branded DVD+R OR4-000 4x) wasn't great, but readable. So I tried one of the 8x (OPTODISC OR8-000) I got in Vancouver in Jan and flashed my 1213S back to 1633S fw BS0S, which allows 8x and has given me the best overall results to date. Here's how it does with a CDSpeed datadisc:

Image

I don't think these results are very good, although it is readable and the transfer rate doesn't look gawdawful on the burner even at 12x (fw patched for reading speed). The PIF cluster at 3.7 GiB doen't seem to bother the drive.

Image

However, my DVD-Drive LTD-163 with ancient fw (GH4W) tries to read this at 16x and doesn't get past the first 0.4 GiB.

Image

So all told, it may be better off writing at 4x. :o

G
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Postby Ace on Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:17 pm

MediumRare wrote:
Ace wrote:But when I asked about going back to the original firmware, they stated "that's not possible".

Actually, the CodeGuys have the original firmware there (in addition to some tweaked variants) but the flasher is modified so that some checks are disabled, e.g. for the version number. This allows you to go back to an earlier version (which isn't possible with the unmodified flasher).


I downloaded the codeguys firmware, labeled "stock, unscrambled,old", but those had the same behavior as the flashers from Sony's website, wouldn't let me flash older firmware. So I looked for other flashers on Codeguy's site, and downloaded Xflash-X and used that to extract the bin and then looked for a way to flash that, found MTK flash but if I'm reading the instructions right, it says "not compatible with DVD writers", am I missing another flasher on the codeguys site?

Of course after reading the performance analysis I'm rethinking whether I should really try to burn the 8x optodisc at 8x, maybe Sony knew what they were doing when they capped it at 4x, but then again, maybe my media is a little better so I'd at least like to try it?
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:34 pm

Ace wrote:I downloaded the codeguys firmware, labeled "stock, unscrambled,old", but those had the same behavior as the flashers from Sony's website, wouldn't let me flash older firmware.

Looks like you'll have to enable cross-flashing yourself. Download the omnipatcher, open the "stock unscrambled" exe-file, enable the cross flashing (or "fix dead drive") option and save to a new file.

You can then use this like you would the normal flash file.

You may have better luck with your media @8x. It's worth a try in any case!

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:50 pm

Unfortunately, Optodisc has a lot of varying grade media. All the Optodisc media I use myself is Acro Circle brand, bought directly from Optodisc. In my review to come, on the LG 4163B, I've included comparison testing of some Generic Optodisc 4x DVD-Rs being sold locally here, as well as the Acro Circle version of the same disc. The differences in quality are hard to miss :wink:
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Postby Ace on Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:29 pm

MediumRare wrote:
Ace wrote:I downloaded the codeguys firmware, labeled "stock, unscrambled,old", but those had the same behavior as the flashers from Sony's website, wouldn't let me flash older firmware.

Looks like you'll have to enable cross-flashing yourself. Download the omnipatcher, open the "stock unscrambled" exe-file, enable the cross flashing (or "fix dead drive") option and save to a new file.
You can then use this like you would the normal flash file.
You may have better luck with your media @8x. It's worth a try in any case!


I opened the omnipatcher, and loaded one of the older, unscrambled firmware files from Codeguys site. There's a checkbox at the bottom of Omnipatcher that says "fix the dead drive blink/enable cross-flashing" so I checked that. I then saved that under a different name, and ran the flasher. I still got the error message (in less than perfect English I might add):
"Unable to patch firmware. Please contact with your Vendor."
So for the heck of it I tried Omnipatcher again, loaded the same file again, and checked that same cross-patch box, and also "Apply recommended DVD media tweaks", and saved the exe under yet another name. I ran that and still got the message
"Unable to patch firmware. Please contact with your Vendor."
As I said I did contact with (sic) my vendor Sony who were very unhelpful, and could only refer me to their list of approved media. I am hereby removing Sony from my list of trusted suppliers! Any other suggestions? Am I doing something wrong?
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Postby Ace on Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:38 pm

Yes I was doing something wrong, I still had DMA enabled, switched to PIO, re-booted and it let me write the firmware.
Rebooted again,set PIO to DMA
Rebooted again, it recognised the drive
Rebooted again, and now burning a test DVD at 8x, finally! What an ordeal
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Re: 8x dvd+r optodisc are awesome

Postby liteonrules on Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:20 pm

Ace wrote:
liteonrules wrote:i just got the NEC 3500 AND OPTODISCS 8X dvd+r unbranded in the mail today and as soon as i got in the house, i couldn't wait to test it. my reaction was WOW! They burned at 12x and the error rates were awesome.


Well I may just have to buy an NEC, but when I looked up the 3500 I saw there is also a 3520 with better specs, and I'm wondering if I should buy that one instead? Then I saw Harry's post, apparently having luck with it, but I gather that the custom firmware for the 3500 may not be compatible with the 3520? Liteonrules, is that why you didn't get the 3520?? Again any suggestions for the newbie would be appreciated.

because the 3500 cost me 47.00 no rebate
NEC 2500A $20 10/04
NEC 3500AG for $47 4/05
NEC 3540 for $35 9/05
BENQ 1620 for $36 9//05
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:48 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:All the Optodisc media I use myself is Acro Circle brand, bought directly from Optodisc.

For the record, this is exactly what I was using. It's part of a "care pcakage" the regal cetation gave me when we met in Vancouver. :D
Ace wrote:Yes I was doing something wrong, I still had DMA enabled, switched to PIO, re-booted and it let me write the firmware.
Rebooted again,set PIO to DMA
Rebooted again, it recognised the drive
Rebooted again, and now burning a test DVD at 8x, finally! What an ordeal

That's weird! I've flashed my LiteOn SOHW-1213S with Sony and Memorex fw as well as various flavours from LiteOn and have left it in DMA the whole time! And I used it immediately after flashing without rebooting. Mind you, the Sony fw was a .BIN file I loaded with a separate flasher, so maybe the Sony flasher is being picky. :roll:

Please let us know how well this media works for you.

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:49 pm

MediumRare wrote:the regal cetation


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I wish I could say I was more surprised about the results though, but I have VERY little faith in LiteON's these days... But I'll probably still buy one for my "collection" in the next couple months.
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Postby RJW on Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:37 am

Well Lite On did improve the overall burnquality and support with the last 2 models much however it also introduced the fact that it will perform terrible on some brands.
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