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DVD Printer, An Ah Ha

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DVD Printer, An Ah Ha

Postby 21st Hermit on Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:02 pm

I was thinking about printing on DVDs. You know LightScribe vs Epson.

Lightscribe: elegant, monochrome and slow.
Epson: clunky, color and faster.

It occured to me someone needs to make an inkjet printer which combines with a standard DVD burner in a full-height 5.25" box, and the critter could burn the optical side and print the white side all at once.

Definition: "An Ah Ha" Intense burning of the brain causing it to melt down. :P
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Postby aviationwiz on Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:24 pm

Wouldn't work, can't print to the disc while it spins.
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Postby 21st Hermit on Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:33 pm

aviationwiz wrote:Wouldn't work, can't print to the disc while it spins.
Why Not, Yee if little imagination.

Do you you think that everything that is printed on today, is stopped? :-?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:27 pm

21st Hermit wrote:
aviationwiz wrote:Wouldn't work, can't print to the disc while it spins.
Why Not, Yee if little imagination.

Do you you think that everything that is printed on today, is stopped? :-?


Maybe not stopped, but NOT spinning :o
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Postby 21st Hermit on Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:14 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Maybe not stopped, but NOT spinning :o
What's the difference if the media is moving or the print head is moving? You have to know the position of the media to within wave-lengths of light to write to the DVD. The ink printhead can be off orders of magnitude from that precision and make great labels.
:o
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Postby cfitz on Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:28 pm

Hey 21st Hermit, Ohio Art has you beat by 40 years or so: :wink:

Image

Image

Strangely, this guy actually did put a CD/DVD in a "twirl o paint" (aka "spin art"):

Image

Image

Seriously, you wouldn't be able to print at the same time you burn, because the disc is spinning too fast when burning (see above picture for likely result). So you would still have a two-step process and wouldn't save any appreciable time. Next, add in the extra space required (one extra drive bay used up), the extra expense required, and the limited utility (it only prints on DVDs unless you figure out a way to crumple up your term paper and jam it into the drive door). Finally, consider the wisdom of mixing opaque inks into the same compartment as an optical drive, and it all points to the idea being simply impractical.

However, if you are still interested in pursuing your idea, there is an auction on ebay you might want to check out. :wink:

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Postby 21st Hermit on Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:59 pm

Cool Post, Thanks =D>

cfitz wrote:Seriously, you wouldn't be able to print at the same time you burn, because the disc is spinning too fast when burning (see above picture for likely result). So you would still have a two-step process and wouldn't save any appreciable time. Next, add in the extra space required (one extra drive bay used up), the extra expense required, and the limited utility (it only prints on DVDs unless you figure out a way to crumple up your term paper and jam it into the drive door). Finally, consider the wisdom of mixing opaque inks into the same compartment as an optical drive, and it all points to the idea being simply impractical.
While I agree it would be difficult, certainly not impossible. Ideally one would use existing white ink jet media. But, That doesn't have to be a given. Look at HP and LightScribe, they used the existing laser but have invented a whole new class of media, complete with royalities. :)

I simply refuse to reject out-of-hand, that a suitable ink cannot be found that will stay in place on a 10,000 RPM disc. Yes, it won't be the same Epson ink we use today, but can such an ink be invented. I say emphatically YES!!!

As to the size, FH today, HH tomorrow. Things always get smaller. Even at FH, its still preferable to another printer. That fact alone with ensure a measure of success for LightScribe. Another possible solution is a 5.25" HH printer, independent of the burner.

I'm surprised, in such a technically sophisticated audience, used to seeing innovation on a daily basis, so many nay sayers.
#-o
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Postby cfitz on Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:10 am

21st Hermit wrote:Cool Post, Thanks =D>

I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was meant in fun.

21st Hermit wrote:I'm surprised, in such a technically sophisticated audience, used to seeing innovation on a daily basis, so many nay sayers.
#-o

Check the tag line above my avatar. :wink:

I'm not saying that what you have envisioned is impossible. I just don't think it would warrant the expense and inevitable compromises. Personally, I would prefer that my regular printer combine a DVD/CD printing function with its normal paper printing function than my DVD/CD burner combine a DVC/CD printing function with its normal burning function. It just seems more naturally matched that way, to me.

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dvd labels print

Postby jorge2005 on Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:15 am

I agree with the both of you.

I believe that LightScribe is not a good solution:
1) Need special media
2) the whole process consumes a lot of time
3) consumes the optical head 2 times more than the DVD burn (as I understand)
4) Comes from HP which they usually want you to ripp-off

But a cons from color InkJet is the no availability of Ink that whan gets dry is against the water.
If any of you know a model, could you let me know it?
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Postby 21st Hermit on Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:22 am

cfitz wrote:Personally, I would prefer that my regular printer combine a DVD/CD printing function with its normal paper printing function than my DVD/CD burner combine a DVC/CD printing function with its normal burning function.
No problem there. except Epson has a lock in the US, not in Europe where Canon also offers printing on CD's.

I have a cheap HP multi-function, terriffic box, if only it would label CD's. #-o
In the mean time, got love that Sharpie. :P

Check the tag line above my avatar.
Isn't that a function of the number of post and not user selectable?
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Postby aviationwiz on Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:46 am

It's admin selectable, so you just have to have an admin change it for you, :P Check mine.
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Postby hoxlund on Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:21 pm

just go with an epson people, the end result is fantastic
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Postby cfitz on Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:55 pm

21st Hermit wrote:No problem there. except Epson has a lock in the US, not in Europe where Canon also offers printing on CD's.

I hear that the Epson models do a pretty good job, but I agree that more competition would be nice.

21st Hermit wrote:In the mean time, got love that Sharpie. :P

Markers are my primary labeling system as well.

21st Hermit wrote:
Check the tag line above my avatar.
Isn't that a function of the number of post and not user selectable?

In general, yes. But the site administrators can change it with their super-powers if they wish. Mine was assigned to me because I was behaving like a grumbly old curmudgeon. And you know how open curmudgeons are to accepting new ideas... :wink:

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Re: dvd labels print

Postby cfitz on Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:59 pm

jorge2005 wrote:But a cons from color InkJet is the no availability of Ink that whan gets dry is against the water.
If any of you know a model, could you let me know it?

You can look into the thermal printers, but I believe they are all directed towards the professional market, so they will cost you...

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:02 pm

Thermal printers are nice, but nothing compares to a professional (yes, NOT Canon or Epson) Inkjet print, with a prefessional laminate coating (for water protection and glossy look). Man... it looks better then most pressed (store bought) discs I've seen! :D
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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:07 pm

what, the Canon printers don't sell in the US ??? :o
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Postby 21st Hermit on Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:10 pm

dodecahedron wrote:what, the Canon printers don't sell in the US ??? :o
That is exactly correct, only Epson offers a CD printer in the US. Not Canon, HP, Lexmark, etc. You can buy professional burner - printer combos, ~$1000. :cry:
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:42 pm

21st Hermit wrote:I simply refuse to reject out-of-hand, that a suitable ink cannot be found that will stay in place on a 10,000 RPM disc.

Well, considering that the centrifugal force at the rim of a disc is ca. 6000 x the force of gravity, I find it highly unlikely that you'll find such an ink. Anything viscous enough to stick on the disc won't make it though the jets of the print head.

But I prefer cfitz' solution too (especially since I have it already). I love my Canon i865 (European version of i860) which is an excellent all-round printer and does a really nice job printing on CDs and DVDs (I use Verbatim).

I haven't tried fixative sprays yet, but they may be way to make the printing wipe-resistant.

dodecahedron wrote:what, the Canon printers don't sell in the US ??? :o

Apparently Epson holds some sort of patent that effectivley blocks the North American market. I think Israel may be "Europe" in this sense- check out the Pixma iP4000. This is one of the few times that Europeans have an advantage over the U.S.:D :D

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:15 pm

Pixma iP3000 and Pixma iP4000 both sell here.
not cheap.
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:33 pm

dodecahedron wrote:Pixma iP3000 and Pixma iP4000 both sell here.
not cheap.

Actually, they sell in the U.S. too, but without the CD/DVD printing option (and the tray to implement it). ca. 140 Euros in Germany.

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:44 pm

prices in Israel (roughly):
PIXMA iP3000: $175
PIXMA iP3000: $220
both with the CD printing capability. :)
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Postby jorge2005 on Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:26 pm

In Israel:
Epson R300 about 175 US$
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Postby 21st Hermit on Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:21 pm

The Epson R200 is $77 - $99 in the US, but the damm thing is huge:

Printing (L x W x H): 18.5" x 19.0" x 11.9"

Now do you see why I want a CD printer in a 5.25" bay. ](*,)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:13 am

oddly enough the Epson R200 is also about $99 CAD when on sale as well :D
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