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DVD-RAM, Does Anyone Care???

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DVD-RAM, Does Anyone Care???

Postby 21st Hermit on Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:16 am

Why does DVD-RAM exist? What feature set does it bring to justify its existance?

Isn't it slower? ~6X max?
I think its rewritable, so!!!
The media, if you can find it, is more expensive.

Please help a hermit understand. #-o

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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:40 pm

it's much more reliable than other DVD formats since (in most -RAM drives anyway) there's automatically a verification of the data written. the downside is that this slows it down even more.
there's also sector defect management.

you can rewrite -RAM discs 10,000 or 100,000 times, much more than -RW and +RW (1000).

originally -RAM discs came in cartridges, making the data even more secure. nowadays most drives don't use the cartridge type -RAM but some still do.

as it says, it's Random Access, as opposed to the sequential nature of DVD+/-R/W. making it more useful for video editing. which is why many DVD recorders (the set-top pieces, not computer stuff, for recording from TV) are DVD-RAM.
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Postby Ian on Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:42 pm

I'm feeling lazy today so I'm just going to give you a link to the DVD-RAM Promotion Group's website:

http://www.ramprg.com/en/a/main.html
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Postby Ian on Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:44 pm

dodecahedron wrote:as it says, it's Random Access, as opposed to the sequential nature of DVD+/-R/W. making it more useful for video editing. which is why many DVD recorders (the set-top pieces, not computer stuff, for recording from TV) are DVD-RAM.


Yup, with some set top recorders, you can write to and read from a DVD-RAM disc at the same time.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:53 pm

If I was going to get a Home Entertainment DVD Recorder, it would DEFFINATELY be DVD-RAM.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby Ian on Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:55 pm

The thing is, most of the people I know aren't even bothering with DVD-RAM for a set top recorder. They're just getting ones with hard drives.
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Postby steven2874 on Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:42 pm

Ian wrote:I'm feeling lazy today so I'm just going to give you a link to the DVD-RAM Promotion Group's website:

http://www.ramprg.com/en/a/main.html


Very good link, Ian. Thanks.
The ideal set-top recorder has HDD and DVD-RAM. I use the HDD for time-shifting and the RAM to import programs to the PC for editing and archiving to DVD-R.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:06 pm

steven2874 wrote:
Ian wrote:I'm feeling lazy today so I'm just going to give you a link to the DVD-RAM Promotion Group's website:

http://www.ramprg.com/en/a/main.html


Very good link, Ian. Thanks.
The ideal set-top recorder has HDD and DVD-RAM. I use the HDD for time-shifting and the RAM to import programs to the PC for editing and archiving to DVD-R.


That's exactly my plan! But I'm not sure I'll shell out the extra $$$ for an HDD yet. We'll see.
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Postby Dartman on Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:20 pm

My Panasonic E80H does dvd Ram and minus R plus it has a 80 gig drive. I mostly just use the HD and minus after I edit stuff the way I want it. I have used the ram disk and if you have a non HD recorder the Ram capability as far as editing and rewritability plus play as you record would be very handy.
I think the Ram disk are much more hardy medium, Too bad many PC's and machines dont even read them. My LiteOn 166 dvd will but it is painfully slow at it. I'll probably get a super Multi soon for the RAM aspect, too bad the 1640 doesn't do them.
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Postby 21st Hermit on Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:22 am

dodecahedron wrote:it's much more reliable than other DVD formats since (in most -RAM drives anyway) there's automatically a verification of the data written. the downside is that this slows it down even more.
there's also sector defect management.

you can rewrite -RAM discs 10,000 or 100,000 times, much more than -RW and +RW (1000).
Many thanks for the reply, some comments.

You don't mention cost, so I did the briefest check, went to NewEgg and checked media cost. The Egg had only one -RAM media listed and it was over $3 per blank. That's 10X the cost of quality 16X R's. I don't know how much more reliable -RAM is, but it sure better be good to pay 10X more.

"10,000 rewrites" who cares?!? The whole RW thing is a joke, the media cost 5-10X more, it burns slower, and in the case of RW it has to be erased, taking even more time, don't know if -RAM needs to be erased. So I say if you make a coaster, so what, move on!!!

I respectfully appreciate your reply and my comments are just comments.

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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:23 pm

a DVD-RAM disc, once formatted, doesn't need to be erased to be used again. you use it just like a hard drive.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:53 pm

21st Hermit wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:it's much more reliable than other DVD formats since (in most -RAM drives anyway) there's automatically a verification of the data written. the downside is that this slows it down even more.
there's also sector defect management.

you can rewrite -RAM discs 10,000 or 100,000 times, much more than -RW and +RW (1000).
Many thanks for the reply, some comments.

You don't mention cost, so I did the briefest check, went to NewEgg and checked media cost. The Egg had only one -RAM media listed and it was over $3 per blank. That's 10X the cost of quality 16X R's. I don't know how much more reliable -RAM is, but it sure better be good to pay 10X more.

"10,000 rewrites" who cares?!? The whole RW thing is a joke, the media cost 5-10X more, it burns slower, and in the case of RW it has to be erased, taking even more time, don't know if -RAM needs to be erased. So I say if you make a coaster, so what, move on!!!

I respectfully appreciate your reply and my comments are just comments.

Hermit


If you're recording live TV, and you're not recording to a HDD, then you can't AFFORD to make a coaster. And DVD-RAM does NOT coaster.... or at least not very easily. You'd have to scratch the entire surface, since even significant scratches of problems on the disk would only ruin the appropriate sectors, and since recording is not done sequentially, it doesn't matter, and the next available sectors can be used.

Also, if you're in a situation where you're making daily backups of sensitive data, then DVD-RAM is the ONLY format that should be considered!! Defect Management is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to protecting important data :D
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Postby Scour on Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:58 pm

Hello!

I use DVD-RAM in my DVD-Recorder. There is no medium more reliable than DVD-RAM. I can edit it fast and easy, that´s also a important point
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Postby frank1 on Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:03 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:If I was going to get a Home Entertainment DVD Recorder, it would DEFFINATELY be DVD-RAM.

YSS is testing such a a Home Entertainment DVD Recorder:
Panasonic DIGA DMR-EH66
here:
http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/DMR-EH66/dmreh66_top.htm
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Postby unclebud on Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:16 pm

i enjoyed reading this thread as i was wondering whether 5 fuji ram disc for $2.99 + tax (open box) was a decent price or not. thanks for the discussion
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Postby KenW on Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:30 am

My LG settop uses a 4163B drive so it can record to about any media as well as DVD-RAM i find on DVD-RAM i get from 1:55 - 1:59 in SP of recording time. and on -RW +RW -R +R I get about 2:00-2:05 in SP as LG uses Variable bit rate length of recording can very a bit. I have always thought this smaller recording time on DVD-RAM is due to its error correction setup and the fact that it can lockout bad sectors. Maybe someone could comment on this.
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Postby Gabe on Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:17 am

unclebud wrote:i enjoyed reading this thread as i was wondering whether 5 fuji ram disc for $2.99 + tax (open box) was a decent price or not. thanks for the discussion


I guess that´s a very good price.

I pay 10 € for 5 DVD-RAM (best price I can get)


@KenW:

A DVD-RAM have only 4,26GB, a +-/R/RW 4,38.

I don´t think that the defect-management is to blame for it, it´s only the specification of RAM-media. DVD-RAM was the first recordable DVD-Format.

My Panasonic DVD-recorder produce in SP 2 hour-recordings in -R and RAM. But this recorder don´t use the full capacity of the media, if I use a -R the recorder uses max. 4GB and not over 4400 :(
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Postby KenW on Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:43 pm

Here is something else to think about with dvd-ram and settop recorders

a number of settops that write dvd-ram use UDF2.0 and a DRM called CPRM or Content Protection for Recordable Media is a mechanism for controlling the copying, moving and deletion of digital media on a host device, such as a personal computer, or other digital player. It's already used in specific removable media, and is now being proposed for inclusion in the ATA specification, for hard drives. This CPRM will make any data recorded to dvd-ram media un-readable by any thing that does not have correct CPRM key and well settops dont give the key out so you get the idea. my LG 517 settop encodes all DVD-VR formated media to this CPRM key so anything i record with it wont play on my pc or my older settop. dvd-ram is always done in DVD-VR format, dvd-rw is too but most settops will also record to -RW in dvd-video format that is not effected with CPRM.
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