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DVD-R DL..small info

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DVD-R DL..small info

Postby jberry on Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:14 pm

thought I would share this...from the Doom9 site:

http://www.doom9.org/

While the DVD+ camp has had a huge headstart when it comes to dual layer media (the writer of this lines has a burner that can write DVD+R DL discs at up to 4x speed), DVD-R DL will be on the agenda of the DVD forum meeting next month. And Pioneer plans the release of 4x DVD-R DL capable A09 in December (but first the specs would have to be finalized, Pioneer has been holding back hardware until the specs were all settled before).


might be nice to see what the -r camp can come up with...any bets on if it will be more compatible than +R?
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Postby KDH on Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:48 pm

If they can include DVD ROM bitsetting then maybe it can equal DVD+R DL.................unless they've come up with something very innovative

Otherwise there isn't a DVD player out there that recognizes the DVD-R DL booktype
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Postby jberry on Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:58 pm

true, but how about -r even....My audiophile neighbour has saved his "first generation" dvd player (Toshiba).....it plays -r's fine.....and it was made loooooong before single layer -r. there is more going on here than just booktype I think,.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:06 pm

Pioneer isn't stupid, if they're going to make a serious effort against the already capable DVD+R9 media on the market, they'll have a way to make it comparable.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby jberry on Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:41 pm

actually I do not think +R DL is all that great...I have spent $$ trying it out...made 6 projects...some my own videos, some backed-up movies, etc. All Verbatim DL +R via an LG 4120b bitset to DVD-ROM (checked all for DVD-ROM booktype). Tested on 3 different Toshiba players, 3 Panasonic, 2 Sony, 1 "first generation" Toshiba..7 yrs old I think, an el cheapo Daytek, Honda Odyssey roof top player, and a Polaroid portable LCD DVD Player....all 6 projects played start to finish...no issues...could not even see the layer break!!! Cool....so what is my beef? Well for EVERY player once you hit layer 2 fast forward/reverse, and skipping chapters via the remote hardly ever worked or player crashed..if you just let it play all was fine.

So I am hoping the -R crowd can get a little bit of a better product out.

If not then I think DL will likely be used for data only really
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:08 am

jberry wrote:If not then I think DL will likely be used for data only really

that's really funny :)
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Postby alexnoe on Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:41 am

Single layer dvd-r have been specified along with dvd-rom, so any dvd player can recognise the dvd-r booktype, unless the firmware is buggy or dvd-r is blacklisted
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:55 am

dodecahedron wrote:
jberry wrote:If not then I think DL will likely be used for data only really

that's really funny :)


Not at all, I know many businesses that use DVD+R9 media for Data backup!

However, DVD+R9 is already being considered as a replacement for DAT masters, which up till now have been the only way of supplying a master for use in replication of a DVD-9 pressed disc. I'm *SURE* DVD-R9 will take this role if it comes out soon enough, as replication plants really frown on DVD+Rs for the most part... or at least all the really big ones in North America do :wink:
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:07 am

alexnoe wrote:Single layer dvd-r have been specified along with dvd-rom, so any dvd player can recognise the dvd-r booktype, unless the firmware is buggy or dvd-r is blacklisted

but is this true for DVD-R9 too?
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Postby alexnoe on Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:18 am

I doubt that...i just wanted to explain why a 7 years old player can detect dvd-r ;)
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Postby jberry on Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:22 am

Well dodecahedron it is not that funny...take a look at my tests...if it doesn't work as advertised who will care about it? Bunch of colleagues and friends have tried regular +r's...problem after problem...no issues when use -r....if Pioneer gets it together and puts out a product that works as well as the -r stuff has then maybe we can put the +r crowd out of their misery once and for all :D

I may be gving Pioneer more credit than they deserve here but I am hoping they have taken so long to get -r DL out because they knew the +r camp would be in such a hurry to get +R DL out that they would mess it up, which they have.
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Postby alexnoe on Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:24 am

I really hope that Pioneer will sue princo if they dare selling DL media :D
...problem after problem...
crap media? :D
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Postby jberry on Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:44 am

acutally media included verbatim, maxcel, and one other. Issues included longer loading time in DVD to skipping to not playing at all to not reading chapters, stalling, etc. They played fine on my denon 2200 and toshiba 4800, but most people I know seem to get the $100 player type things.

Oh yah, my el cheapo Daytek for the kids has major issues with +r.

Dunno the purpose of +r if people have issues with it. I will never use it again...just try making DVDs on good media at home to give to family members who can't play it. My -r's have NEVER had a problem...no matter what brand or cost (this is what people want).

Happens more often than you think...joe public is not going to go out and buy a new set-top to play +r or +r DL..no need to as -r plays on everything.

I am anxious to see how -r DL works out..not need for two standards at all. Just go into Best Buy or Future Shop and ask sales person if plays +r...get the big "Huh?"
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Postby alexnoe on Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:07 pm

Oh yah, my el cheapo Daytek for the kids has major issues with +r.
My parents have a Daytek DVD 707, which can play everything except for dvd-ram.

Everything includes dvd-r, dvd-rw, princo dvd-r, princo dvd-rw, dvd+r, dvd+rw and dvd+r dl with bitsetting.... what player do you speak about exactly?
Just go into Best Buy or Future Shop and ask sales person if plays +r...get the big "Huh?"
Why would anyone ask a sales person? Here, they tell people that 'those princo discs will work perfectly on that nec 1300a'!
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Postby jberry on Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:27 pm

I forget the model number of the Daytek....oh it will play +r, but I sometimes I have to eject the DVD a few times. Also when it finally "sees" it boot up is ALOT longer than with -r.

Between neighbours, colleagues, and friends I figure I have tested various +r projects in about 15-20 different set-tops now that I think about it...most had issues; with -r All played PERFECTLY.

this is why I am hoping -r DL plays as well....if it does not than DL with amount to nothing...or you will have to buy new set-tops #-o ; and by the time 100% DL compatible set-tops arrive HD or Blue Ray will be out.

Let us hope that Pioneer has actually been working on this all this time :roll:

Also; I was in a Futureshop a few weeks back and for fun asked if they had any players that would play DVD-A...they said "there are no such discs" :D
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Postby Wesociety on Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:56 pm

jberry wrote:Between neighbours, colleagues, and friends I figure I have tested various +r projects in about 15-20 different set-tops now that I think about it...most had issues;

Greetings jberry, let me introduce you to my friend...
His name is BITSETTING.
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Postby jberry on Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:07 pm

greetings wesociety...let me introduce you to an even BETTER friend...his name is [-X READING!!!!! [-X

Had you taken the time to read the full thread you would have seen that yes indeed I have set the booktype properly...you did know that bitsetting and booktype are the same thing...don't you :wink:

Just tried another burn with my last blank...this time with DVD Decryptor's burn engine...and yes booktype set properly once again...another DL mess up...stuff plays but not that well...too many hic-ups.
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Postby Kool on Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:46 am

jberry wrote:Just tried another burn with my last blank...this time with DVD Decryptor's burn engine...and yes booktype set properly once again...another DL mess up...stuff plays but not that well...too many hic-ups.


I got both the Pioneer 108 and NEC 3500 to burn and play DVD+R DL fine.
I don't know how successful the LG is burning DL discs. From what I found is that most of the problems are related to Traxdata or Ritek DVD+R DL discs, stay away from them.
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Postby jsl on Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:18 am

jberry wrote:Between neighbours, colleagues, and friends I figure I have tested various +r projects in about 15-20 different set-tops now that I think about it...most had issues; with -r All played PERFECTLY.

If you have a 100-0 success rate with -R vs. +R you are doing something wrong when burning +R such as using a crap burner, crap discs or crap software. Because you do realize that +R discs should be inserted with the label side up too right? ;)
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:45 am

maybe a bum drive ?
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Postby jberry on Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:05 am

good ole jsl...another remedial reading class needed for you (or as you would spell it 'U'). They play fine in many other set-tops I have tried them on...including mine...I have found enough that do not though to not make it worth my while. Always safe to stay with spec discs..that is why DVD forum has not spec'd +r..course you knew that :lol:

Course you could have figured that out by reading eh?
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Postby Ian on Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:41 am

jberry wrote:good ole jsl...another remedial reading class needed for you


Before you make rude comments to more people, please read over the forum rules:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8914
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Postby uknown1234 on Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:50 am

jsl wrote:
jberry wrote:Between neighbours, colleagues, and friends I figure I have tested various +r projects in about 15-20 different set-tops now that I think about it...most had issues; with -r All played PERFECTLY.

If you have a 100-0 success rate with -R vs. +R you are doing something wrong when burning +R such as using a crap burner, crap discs or crap software. Because you do realize that +R discs should be inserted with the label side up too right? ;)

that all could be true but as others have said it might be time to buy a new and improved dvd player =D>
even if -R DL media comes out, the -R camp has lost alot of ground since most dual format burners can burn +r quite well and -r sometimes ok or not even at all.
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Postby Wesociety on Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:41 am

jberry wrote:greetings wesociety...let me introduce you to an even BETTER friend...his name is READING!!!!!

Had you taken the time to read the full thread you would have seen that yes indeed I have set the booktype properly...

Actually, it is YOU that has the problem with reading.
Even with posts that you have made yourself!
Let's revisit the comments so far shall we?

jberry wrote:Between neighbours, colleagues, and friends I figure I have tested various +r projects in about 15-20 different set-tops now that I think about it...most had issues; with -r All played PERFECTLY.

Here you comment on how you have tested DVD+R projects in various set-tops with a low success rate, however you NEVER mention using bitsetting on these SL DVD+R discs. How was I to know if you did or did not set the booktype to DVD-ROM on these SL discs? There are even quite a few burners that do not support SL DVD+R bisetting, even when DVD+R DL bitsetting is supported.

You only made one post regarding bitsetting, and it referred to DVD+R DL discs, NOT DVD+R SL discs. Here is your quote:
jberry wrote: All Verbatim DL +R via an LG 4120b bitset to DVD-ROM (checked all for DVD-ROM booktype)...


As a few others have already pointed out, if you are having that much trouble with DVD+R discs you either have;
bad discs
a poor quality DVD+R writer
or did not set the booktype to DVD-ROM on these SL DVD+R discs.
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Postby KDH on Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:02 am

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