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help/advice: Athlon (XP) vs. Pentium 4

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help/advice: Athlon (XP) vs. Pentium 4

Postby dodecahedron on Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:40 am

hi guys.

i need some advice. i haven't been reading up on hardware recently (like 3 years) and i'm not very into the details.
plus i've no time for doing proper research myself.
so i thought i would impose on you guys for advice. any ideas appreciated.

i'm might be doing a hardware upgrade soon, since my motherboard is to be replaced.
the question is what's better, an Athlon XP or Pentium 4? i'm thinking something like Athlon XP 2600+, 2800+ or 3000+, or the P4 equivalents. the faster chips are too expensive, as are the Athlon 64.
(i think...am i wrong?)

also, what chipset would you recommend for a P4 chip? based on Intel 865/875/848 whatever? i really don't know the differences between them etc.

TIA
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Postby hoxlund on Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:25 pm

for pentium for i would strongly suggest a asus board

Like the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe board, me and aviationwiz use it, nothing but rock solid

Or you can go with Abit IC7-Max 3, heard that one is a pretty good board too

for chipsets try to stick with 875 chipset, performs the best with dual channel, p4 combo

remember if you have a friend who works retail, get him to do the www.intel.com/retailedge for you, you'll be getting steller deals on cpu/mobo

last year it was 3.0GHz P4C cpu, intel mobo and win xp pro retail for $199

this year i can easily see that it'll be a 925x chipset P4E cpu and mobo
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Re: help/advice: Athlon (XP) vs. Pentium 4

Postby Shredder on Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:27 pm

dodecahedron wrote:i'm might be doing a hardware upgrade soon, since my motherboard is to be replaced.
the question is what's better, an Athlon XP or Pentium 4? i'm thinking something like Athlon XP 2600+, 2800+ or 3000+, or the P4 equivalents. the faster chips are too expensive, as are the Athlon 64.


P4 and Athlon 64 have similar price. However, if you are not one of those people that upgrade computer parts frequently and have money, it's probably better to go for Athlon 64. Otherwise, Athlon XP will be better and affordable upgrade solution for now.

dodecahedron wrote:also, what chipset would you recommend for a P4 chip? based on Intel 865/875/848 whatever? i really don't know the differences between them etc.


865/875 for Socket 478 P4
915/925 for LGA775 P4 (currently the only chipsets available for the new LGA775 P4)
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Postby Shredder on Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:40 pm

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Postby dodecahedron on Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:43 pm

Shredder wrote:Related discussion

thanks, already read it. :D

what's the difference between Socket 478 P4 and LGA775 Pentium 4 ?

also:
Asus P4P800 vs. P4C800 - i understand it's 865 vs. 875 chipsets. what's the major differences between them?

as for athlon, i gather one of the best motherboards now is the Asus K7N8X-E Deluxe Nforce3.
what's the K8V? i gather these are new mobos for the Athlon64, Opteron maybe?
are they compatible with a regular Athlon too? or does the Athlon64 use a different socket?
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Postby Shredder on Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:04 pm

dodecahedron wrote:what's the difference between Socket 478 P4 and LGA775 Pentium 4 ?


LGA775 is the latest socket which pins are on the socket itself not on the CPU. According to some websites, if you are not careful, you can break the pins on socket. Greater chance of breaking pins on socket than them on CPU itself.

dodecahedron wrote:Asus P4P800 vs. P4C800 - i understand it's 865 vs. 875 chipsets. what's the major differences between them?


875 gives some extra performance at higher cost.

dodecahedron wrote:as for athlon, i gather one of the best motherboards now is the Asus K7N8X-E Deluxe Nforce3.
what's the K8V? i gather these are new mobos for the Athlon64, Opteron maybe?


Asus K7N8X-E (A7N8X-E ?) uses nForce2 and it is for Athlon XP. K8V is for Socket 754 which uses VIA K8T800 and it is for Athlon 64.

dodecahedron wrote:are they compatible with a regular Athlon too? or does the Athlon64 use a different socket?


Different socket to accomodate builtin memory controller, more cache, more silicons, etc.
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Which CPU

Postby bimbla on Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:04 pm

Go for Athlon 64. Microsoft is coming with 64-bit windows soon. As on right now the benifit is built-in firewall (in the CPU). The AMD platform is future proof and cheaper as compared to Intel.

I hear Intel chipsets are very unsteady these days.

So its GO AMD Athlon 64!

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Re: Which CPU

Postby Shredder on Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:44 pm

bimbla wrote: As on right now the benifit is built-in firewall (in the CPU).


Firewall is built in NVidia south bridge chipset MCP. Not in the CPU. Athlon 64/Opteron has NX, "no execute," which helps against computer virus and buffer overrun attacks. Its support is said to be included in upcoming Windows XP SP2. I believe the latest Intel Xeon with EM65T (Xeon with 64bit extension compatible with Athlon 64/Opteron) has similar feature.
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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:51 am

prices from one particular website (a good one, towards the cheaper side of the scale):
Athlon XP 3000+ 2.167GHz 333MHz FSB (512K cahce??) Barton core : $185
Athlon 64 3000+ 2.0GHz (400MHz FSB??) 512K cache : $284
Pentium 4 socket 478 3.0GHz HT 800MHz FSB 512K cache Northwood core: $266
Pentium 4 socket 478 3.0GHz HT 800MHz FSB 1MB cache Prescott core: $266
Pentium 4 LGA775 3.0GHz 530 800MHz FSB 1MB cache Prescott core : $266
(what does the 530 mean?)
(these proces are all for retail kit BTW)

is AMD's 3000+ really equivalent (more or less) to Intel's 3.0GHz. 3200+ to 3.2GHz etc. ?

seems that both P4 and Athlon64 are rather pricy...


Athlon XP 3200+ 2.2GHz 400MHz FSB (512K cahce??) Barton core : $239
Athlon 64 3200+ 1.8GHz(typo??) 400MHz FSB 1MB cache : $347
Pentium 4 socket 478 3.2GHz HT 800MHz FSB 512K cache Northwood core: $336
Pentium 4 socket 478 3.2GHz HT 800MHz FSB 1MB cache Prescott core: $336
Pentium 4 LGA775 3.2GHz 530 800MHz FSB 1MB cache Prescott core : $336

mobo prices from same website:

Athlon XP: Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe (Nforce2): $127
Athlon 64: Asus K8V SE Deluxe (Via K8T800): $149
Pentium 4: Asus P4P800-E Deluxe (Intel 865): $149
Pentium 4: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe (Intel 875): $220

seems that the Athlon64 is on the same price level as the Pentium4.
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Postby Shredder on Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:31 am

dodecahedron wrote:Pentium 4 LGA775 3.0GHz 530 800MHz FSB 1MB cache Prescott core : $266
(what does the 530 mean?)


Intel's new CPU model naming scheme.

dodecahedron wrote:is AMD's 3000+ really equivalent (more or less) to Intel's 3.0GHz. 3200+ to 3.2GHz etc. ?


Yes. I would say it performs more or less within 10% performance difference in 32bit.

dodecahedron wrote:seems that the Athlon64 is on the same price level as the Pentium4.


Like I said, P4 and Athlon 64 have similar price. However, Athlon 64 is slightly cheaper if you consider its built-in features.
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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:46 am

actually, i was thinking of the Athlon XP 3000+.
is that roughly equivalent to Pentium 4 3.0Ghz as well?
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Postby Bhairav on Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:41 am

dodecahedron wrote:actually, i was thinking of the Athlon XP 3000+.
is that roughly equivalent to Pentium 4 3.0Ghz as well?


Nope, I'd say it's more like a P4 2.4B,533FSB.
Oh, and good to see you again,dodeca!
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Postby Shredder on Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:18 am

bhairavp wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:actually, i was thinking of the Athlon XP 3000+.
is that roughly equivalent to Pentium 4 3.0Ghz as well?


Nope, I'd say it's more like a P4 2.4B,533FSB.


You must be on crack. Athlon XP 3000+ should perform like somewhere in between P4 2.8Ghz and P4 3.0Ghz. One of my computers is running on AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton at stock speed (no overclocking), it performs better than P4 2.4.
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Postby Bhairav on Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:55 pm

Shredder wrote:
bhairavp wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:actually, i was thinking of the Athlon XP 3000+.
is that roughly equivalent to Pentium 4 3.0Ghz as well?


Nope, I'd say it's more like a P4 2.4B,533FSB.


You must be on crack. Athlon XP 3000+ should perform like somewhere in between P4 2.8Ghz and P4 3.0Ghz. One of my computers is running on AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton at stock speed (no overclocking), it performs better than P4 2.4.


Hey, no need to get insulting,okay?I'm happy for your Barton machine.. maybe you should measure it's performance in apps like 3DMark, and Sysmark, and then compare it to a P4..
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Postby Shredder on Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:20 pm

bhairavp wrote:Hey, no need to get insulting,okay?I'm happy for your Barton machine.. maybe you should measure it's performance in apps like 3DMark, and Sysmark, and then compare it to a P4..


I'm not insulting anyone. I just don't like misleading information. Benchmarking has been done so many times on the web that I don't really have to.

Such as this one:

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html

Probably not the accurate data as each CPU may perform better or worse under various test cases, however it should give you general idea of each CPU's performance. As I said before, performance difference between P4 and Athlon XP is (more or less) around 10% except for memory bandwith and video encoding where P4 dominates due to higher FSB.
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