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In House Review - Pioneer DVR-R100 16x DVD±RW

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:56 pm

LoneWolf wrote:Hey Dolphin...one thing I noticed is that in DVDInfo (IIRC), the "Mt. Rainier" support box was actually checked. I know that would interest some people. Is there a way to know if that is supported for CD and DVD writing, or just CD writing?


I'll leave this question for Ian, as he actually was the author of the install and features pages.
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Postby Ian on Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:05 pm

LoneWolf wrote:Hey Dolphin...one thing I noticed is that in DVDInfo (IIRC), the "Mt. Rainier" support box was actually checked. I know that would interest some people. Is there a way to know if that is supported for CD and DVD writing, or just CD writing?


Where? The screenshot I took shows that it doesn't support it when reading or writing.

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Postby Muchin on Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:19 pm

@ MediumRare

Just to supplement what you have said:

Ironically at least some versions of almost every PI/PO error test program calculate one or both average values in the wrong way. I believe you know that KProbe 2.4.0 and some earlier versions calculate both PIE/PIF averages correctly, whereas versions 2.4.1 and later calculate PIF wrongly as SUM 8 even if SUM 1 is selected. I guess that most people do not care about those numbers, so I have not talked about it for a long time.

I do not use DIP for scanning because I also consider the values reported doubtful, and no information is provided to check what are the causes.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:13 pm

Since it looks like this DVDInfoPro discussion is going to continue for a while, can we please move it to the thread I created here:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=150047

I think it'll make the pioneer comments, and the DVDInfoPro comments easier to read, if they aren't interspersed between each other :wink:
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Postby zebraxor on Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:06 pm

Back on topic...

I am quite happy with the bottle-nosed one's review. It was quite interesting to note that when I reviewed the DVR-110, before its actual release (Pioneer Japan were kind enough to send me sample units), I rated the hardware a 7/10 on speedlabs.org, for 99% of the same reasons the Dolphin alluded to, many months later in his review.

It is nice when two reviewer's results match up so closely, through sheer coincidence. To me, it suggests we are all striving for the same goals/looking for the same values in our hardware! With luck, the vendors take this into account. ;)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:57 pm

zebraxor wrote:With luck, the vendors take this into account. ;)


Does that happen before or after Pioneer's announcement to stop supporting PC DVD Burners? :lol:

Sorry, I'm still not impressed by that course of action. Hopefully they'll make another statement soon, regarding not giving the finger to their customers...
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Postby Ian on Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:38 pm

They're going to continue to support them.. just with Blu-ray. :D

As I mentioned before, Pioneer is having a harder and harder time competing in the market, especially here in the US. I'm hoping that by working with TEAC, they'll be able to continue to produce drives and not throw in the towel.
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Postby zebraxor on Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:19 am

Ok. I have had a chat with Pioneer about this situation. So far, all they have told me are the following facts:

i. All current models of their DVR series drives will continue to be fully supported in terms of firmware updates (I wonder how long this continuation will exist for?)

ii. Pioneer's roadmap indicates another 2 generations of the DVR-1xx series drives yet to come, before the eventual demise and move to BD-RE/other

...I asked for more information (specifics pretaining to these new models, but at the time, this hardware is currently NDA).
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Postby eric93se on Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:34 pm

I hope to see BD-ROM added in the next generation, not just DVD-RAM 16x. :)
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Postby LoneWolf on Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:38 pm

Ian wrote:
LoneWolf wrote:Hey Dolphin...one thing I noticed is that in DVDInfo (IIRC), the "Mt. Rainier" support box was actually checked. I know that would interest some people. Is there a way to know if that is supported for CD and DVD writing, or just CD writing?


Where? The screenshot I took shows that it doesn't support it when reading or writing.


My bad. :roll: It was Nero Infotool that said it, not DVDInfo. #-o

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Postby Ian on Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:48 pm

InfoTool doesn't say it supports it either. You sure you're not looking at the wrong checkbox?
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Postby Scour on Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:26 pm

Big review, DD :)

You had tested very much media, I like that :)

But I am still very familiar with Plextools-Scans, so it was very complicated to open every Benq and Liteon-scan in the browser :o

If I see the result, I guess that the Pioneer 109 is still the better DVD-writer. Pioneer have a lot of work in the future FWs to support more media at the rated speeds
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:01 pm

Scour wrote:Big review, DD :)

You had tested very much media, I like that :)


I aim to please! :wink:

Scour wrote:But I am still very familiar with Plextools-Scans, so it was very complicated to open every Benq and Liteon-scan in the browser :o


If things go well, you may only have to deal with that for one more review :wink: (the lot's of windows thing I mean)

Scour wrote:If I see the result, I guess that the Pioneer 109 is still the better DVD-writer. Pioneer have a lot of work in the future FWs to support more media at the rated speeds


That's pretty much my impression too.... not very impressive at first glance.
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Postby Scour on Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:55 am

scour wrote:But I am still very familiar with Plextools-Scans, so it was very complicated to open every Benq and Liteon-scan in the browser :o

Sorry, little typo. I mean I´m not very familiar with Plextool-Scans, so I open all Liteon and Benq-scans
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:15 am

Scour wrote:I´m not very familiar with Plextool-Scans

Look here: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Ple ... x-ger.html

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Postby Scour on Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:16 am



Thanks for the link :)

I know what PI and PIF is ;) , but I see in most forums scans from KProbe and CDSpeed (Benq), so I can better compare the quality of the burned media. That´s the reason why I prefer Scans from Liteon and Benq :)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:25 pm

Scour wrote:


Thanks for the link :)

I know what PI and PIF is ;) , but I see in most forums scans from KProbe and CDSpeed (Benq), so I can better compare the quality of the burned media. That´s the reason why I prefer Scans from Liteon and Benq :)


I've now scanned the same disc with a single LiteON drive over 30 times (rough estimate), and the standard variation between scans bugs me quite a bit... also, all the results on my newer 1635s drive are completely unrealistic compared to the performance of the disc on any range of drives. I'm seriously thinking of stopping LiteON scanning on my reviews in order to promote less confusion about the results. I'll give the 1635s one chance to proove it's not more of a danger then a benefit though.
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Postby LoneWolf on Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:26 pm

Ian wrote:InfoTool doesn't say it supports it either. You sure you're not looking at the wrong checkbox?


#-o

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Postby steven2874 on Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:47 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:Too bad the drive is so lame.... but now I've got a 5x DVD-RAM burner in both PCs (one is the LG 4163B). So now I really SHOULD pick up a DVD-RAM recorder for the front room :lol:


I think the reviewers use of the word "lame" to describe this drive says a lot about his objectivity.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:55 pm

steven2874 wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:Too bad the drive is so lame.... but now I've got a 5x DVD-RAM burner in both PCs (one is the LG 4163B). So now I really SHOULD pick up a DVD-RAM recorder for the front room :lol:


I think the reviewers use of the word "lame" to describe this drive says a lot about his objectivity.
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I don't recall using the word lame when I had my reviewer's hat on :wink:

Look, I'm a person, and therefore I get to have an opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree with me though. All the data I used to formulate my opinion is in the review. If you can look at all that data objectively, and come out with a sparkling impression of the drive, then by all means do.

One more thing I'd like to say, is that I *WANTED* to like this drive. I own several Pioneer drives, and have had NOTHING but respect for them, up until this drive (I wasn't impressed with the Pioneer DVR-109, but it improved quite a lot eventually). If you'll notice, I made mention of my own hopes that the DVR-R100 (or DVR-110D) would improve with time and firmware in the future. It's still my hope that this will happen, but I'm not going to grade a drive on a wish and a hope, nor am I going to recommend one like that.
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Postby Ian on Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:08 pm

Something Dolph didn't mention in his review was build quality. Maybe its just me, but the 110 has a cheaper feel to it. Anyone else get this impression?
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Postby steven2874 on Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:24 pm

Ian wrote:Something Dolph didn't mention in his review was build quality. Maybe its just me, but the 110 has a cheaper feel to it. Anyone else get this impression?


"Cheaper feel" is difficult to quantify. After I installed this drive I didn't feel it at all. I've owned a 110D>A010XL for months now and it has consistently produced better burns than my BENQ 1640 or Lite-On 1693 on "quality" media. I burn Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim exclusively.
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Postby Ian on Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:00 pm

Dolph tests a wide range of media because TY and Verbatim might not be available to all.. or in their price range. Sadly, most people tend to buy the cheapest stuff they can find.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:24 pm

My goal for my media testing is to include a fair range of discs that people might find, no matter what part of the world they live in. To only test 2 or 3 media types would be very unprofessional in my opinion, not to mention utterly useless to a very large percentage of the people who use the drives I review.

At the very least if I wanted to only include professional level media, I'd have to test Taiyo Yuden, Verbatim, Maxell, Sony, TDK, Fuji, and potentially Mitsui. Including other major brands like Memorex, RiData, and BenQ, is never a bad idea either.

If anything, I'd like to EXPAND my media testing :D
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Postby eric93se on Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:03 pm

steven2874 wrote:
Ian wrote:Something Dolph didn't mention in his review was build quality. Maybe its just me, but the 110 has a cheaper feel to it. Anyone else get this impression?


"Cheaper feel" is difficult to quantify. After I installed this drive I didn't feel it at all. I've owned a 110D>A010XL for months now and it has consistently produced better burns than my BENQ 1640 or Lite-On 1693 on "quality" media. I burn Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim exclusively.
Life is too short for the type of media the dolphin spent a lot of time testing.


I have to agree, so far my 110 has performed equally on high quality media, and outperforms my 1640 on cheaper media. People have to understand that the FW used on the review was old, most drives improve significantly after a few FW updates. Case in point, the 1640 wasn't made available in the US for 6 months, while EU and Asia got to play with early fw versions, however the 110D was available right away in the US.
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