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How long do cd-r's last before burning?

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How long do cd-r's last before burning?

Postby Hitokiri on Mon Dec 23, 2002 5:58 am

I just unpacked a spindle of 32x Taiyo Yuden blanco's which i bought in october..i'm having serious reading problems (slowdowns and full stops) with the discs in my plextor 40x drive..even when the discs are burnt with another writer and at lower speeds
not a single one will read correctly in the plextor (no probs with writing them though), but..they all work fine in any other cdrom drive



on the other hand i'm also having problems with crappy cd-r's from 'precision' (24x certified), 'silver circle' (16x), certain (not all of them) 'sentinel'-branded TY discs (also 32x) and also with 1 older blanco disc written by a friend of mine some time ago and 1 old tdk-branded ritek disc

then again, tdk-branded TY's never fail, and 32x tdk-branded ritek's and plextor discs also work perfectly

i wonder..where lies the problem?
are my (TY) discs too old and already degrading (before i even burnt on them)? are those sentinel-branded TY's and TY blanco's utter crap?

or does the plextor drive have a reading problem?

what do you guys think?
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Postby cfitz on Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:16 am

We all know that CD-Rs will eventually degrade with age. And I've heard a rumor (just a rumour - not substantiated) that the ability to write to CD-Rs degrades more quickly than the ability to read them, so it is better not to let CD-Rs sit unburned for too long. Again, just a rumour to me (although it might be true.).

However, October certainly isn't old enough for there to be problems with the media. Of course, those discs were likely made earlier than October, but 32x discs in general are new enough that I would say none of them are old enough to have any problems yet, unless you got a bad batch.

For what it is worth, I just recently burned a roughly 3-year old 4x rated TY disc at 24x, and had no problems at all.

I am tempted to say your problem is the Plextor. It could be one bad batch of media, but you are reporting problems with multiple batches. And TY has always given me good results, so you having the bad luck to get multiple bad batches of TY media seems to be pretty unlikely. Of course, this assumes that the all those off-brand TY discs truly are TY and not just stamped out with old TY masters in someone's basement... :( The fact that you aren't having trouble with the name brand discs is curious.

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Postby CignaXI on Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:32 pm

Just try to burn the same media on a diffferent burner if you have access to it. I also have very old media and haven't had a prob with them. they are over 2 or 3 years old.
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Postby TCAS on Tue Dec 24, 2002 12:41 am

I just happen to find some early Memorex CD-R 1x-8x , Memorex CD-RW 2x-4x and TDK CD-R 1x-8x with fancy packaging from 4 year ago I had and never used in my stuff, burning them now with Nero 5.5.10.0 and Lite-On 52X24X52 drive burner , the process go through flawlessly and no problem anticipated. The quality of burning is also unquestionable.
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Postby Hitokiri on Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:28 am

CignaXI wrote:Just try to burn the same media on a diffferent burner if you have access to it. I also have very old media and haven't had a prob with them. they are over 2 or 3 years old.


thanks for the replies guys

well, as i said..i burnt one of those blanco TY discs with my old philips burner and the disc cannot be read either with the plextor..but it works flawlessly with every other drive (including philips burner), and i'm not having any burning problems with either the plextor or philips drive

i first noticed the problem with one of those sentinel-labeled TY's last wednesday or something, a few days later i unpacked that spindle TY blanco's and 'all of them' are causing the same trouble with the plextor..
after that i tested numerous cd-r's burnt months ago and only some of them (all of them are crap discs) show the same problem, but they do

now i am a bit concerned about the quality of the discs i purchased (because next to those TY's, only crappy discs show problems), as cfitz says, maybe they are fakes and the plextor is not able to handle them well..

i've had this kind of problem before, when i burnt certain crappy discs while running programs in the background, they would show the same problem..but that is not the issue here now, i already tested that

is there any way i can test to see if the TY's are fake? they came without cakbox, they look really nice..not a single particle of dust noticable on the dyes or labels, i've never seen discs as clean as these ones..it would be hard to believe these are not manufactured by TY, but then again..who am i to say?

tia for any useful replies
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Postby cfitz on Tue Dec 24, 2002 12:29 pm

Hitokiri wrote:is there any way i can test to see if the TY's are fake?

At the very least look for the frosted clear plastic inner ring around the hole for the spindle. And look for a serial number in that inner ring that is stamped into the plastic. It looks like it may be melted into the plastic - it isn't printed with ink like on discs by some other manufacturers. The serial number will be straight across, as opposed to curving around the inner ring in an arc.

Here are some example serial numbers from some of my discs. The actual numbers themselves won't match, of course, but the general form ought to match:

Memorex branded 32x rated = FA252S0908180
Memorex branded 40x rated = UE257D1019280
Fuji branded 24x rated = RE130L0436280
Fuji branded 48x rated = NE267D0495680
TDK branded 32x rated = TB231U0318480

Note that the general form is two letters followed by three numbers, one letter and seven more numbers. The 80 at the end seems to be the length of the disc. All of the above examples are from 80-minute discs. I also have an old 74-minute disc that has a 74 at the end.

Also, the serial number is placed so that when reading it normally, the hole in the disc is just above the serial number.

It is hard to see, but here is a picture of the inner ring of a Memorex branded TY disc:
Image

For comparison, here is a picture of the inner ring of a Memorex branded CMC disc. Note that its plastic is clear, and the serial number is printed with black ink in an arc:
Image

I don't know it that will help any. I hope so.

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Postby coolestnitish on Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:39 pm

cfitz wrote:Note that the general form is two letters followed by three numbers, one letter and seven more numbers. The 80 at the end seems to be the length of the disc. All of the above examples are from 80-minute discs. I also have an old 74-minute disc that has a 74 at the end.
cfitz

My Memorex 48x TYs have the number 5H25600776180 and similar.
What happened to the first two letters in my CDs? :o I did look carefully and looked at another cd from the same pack and that was also 5H25600751280. Did they stop using two letters in the beginning or my discs aren't TY? They are made in Japan and came in a 10 pack. :-?
Forgot to mention, I recently found 5 Memorex's (12x max made in taiwan) lying around and burned them at 8x and 4x. These discs were lying here for 8 months and I got 0 errors using CD Speed's scan disk and file test. I was actually able to overburn them to 83 minutes too. :lol:
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Postby cfitz on Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:27 pm

coolestnitish wrote:My Memorex 48x TYs have the number 5H25600776180 and similar. What happened to the first two letters in my CDs?

It may be that there are variations in TY's serial numbering scheme. My examples weren't meant to be the definitive exposition of TY serial numbering, just a number of samples (that happened to all have the same format). Anyone else have examples of serial numbers from name brand TY media (e.g. Fuji, Memorex, TDK) that we can be fairly certain aren't knockoffs? Please contribute. Or, if anyone has the inside scoop on TY's serial number scheme, please enlighten.

Also, coolestnitish, although on my disks the numeral '5' is quite distinct from the letter 'S", I will ask: are you sure the first postition is a '5' and not an 'S'? And are you sure the 6'th position is a '0' (zero) and not an 'O' (the letter)?

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Postby BillyG on Tue Dec 24, 2002 6:03 pm

Tayio Uden are very uniform on how they print serial numbers, but CMC goes all over the place with different sizes and styles. You really cant tell if its a CMC by looking at batch numbers.

I have a few Optimum 40X CD-R's that are made by CMC that have the numbers printed horizontally simular to Postech CD-R's. It makes me wonder where CMC is making these things!
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Postby coolestnitish on Tue Dec 24, 2002 6:11 pm

cfitz wrote:Also, coolestnitish, although on my disks the numeral '5' is quite distinct from the letter 'S", I will ask: are you sure the first postition is a '5' and not an 'S'? And are you sure the 6'th position is a '0' (zero) and not an 'O' (the letter)?
cfitz

I checked again and they are a 5 and a 0(zero). I will get a pic in tommorow as I still have to install some drivers for my camera and currently doing video encoding which takes lots of time and can't restart.
Anyways, I checked some more discs and here are the numbers : 5H256C0751880, 5H256C0750680. That in the front is for sure a 5 and those I am pretty sure are zeros too. O's are supposed to fatter.lol. But I'll get a pic in tonite late or tommorow for sure just so that you guys can see too.
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Postby coolestnitish on Tue Dec 24, 2002 11:42 pm

Alright here is the picture of Memorex 48x TY
Image
That in the front sure is a 5 and those are zeros aren't they? I am a little near sighted so..lol. I read it to be 5H256C0776180.
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Postby Hitokiri on Wed Dec 25, 2002 11:29 am

i went to my uncle's today and checked all my problematic cd-r's on his drive and 2 of them showed the same problem as with the plextor, i checked again with my philips drive..not a single problem, very strange!!

i checked both TY blanco's and Sentinel labeled TY's for serial and inner ring..they look exactly alike and resemble the ones on both pics of coolestnitish and cfitz..but does this really guarantee anything?

i don't know what to think any more, there's no pattern to all of this, i can't tell if the drive or the discs are causing trouble..
i think i'll return the drive to plextor and go from there..if i'm still having problems after they return the drive, i'll try a different TY spindle, if it still doesn't work..i'll be using 3.5" diskettes from then on

why do i always have this kind of strange problems..
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Postby coolestnitish on Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:04 pm

Hitokiri wrote:i checked both TY blanco's and Sentinel labeled TY's for serial and inner ring..they look exactly alike and resemble the ones on both pics of coolestnitish and cfitz..but does this really guarantee anything?

How can the serials resemble both cfitz and my pics when we ourselves had different patterns in the serial? :wink:
Hitokri wrote:i'll be using 3.5" diskettes from then on

From a Plextor drive with TY media straight to floppies? That's a massive change. lol.
Well if the discs showed problems on your uncle's burner, then couldn't it be just the discs. Before returning the drive, I would try some more new TY media. Don't get discouraged. Where there's a will, there's a way.
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Postby KuoH on Thu Dec 26, 2002 12:08 am

FWIW here is a scan of my Memorex/TY 40x.

Image

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Postby Hitokiri on Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:44 am

coolestnitish wrote:How can the serials resemble both cfitz and my pics when we ourselves had different patterns in the serial? :wink:


i also have some TY discs with serials that start with a number, but most of them start with two letters, so i think there's nothing to worry about there

it could be indeed that my cd-r media is the cause, but remember..i'm having this with several discs i burned in the past also
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Postby Hitokiri on Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:43 am

okay i got my drive back from plextor and guess what..there was a malfunction :)

TY blanco's now working perfectly, as is every other disc

tnx for the help guys
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Postby cfitz on Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:07 am

I'm glad to hear it, both because you now have a healthy drive again and because it confirms the original (and most reasonable) theory for the problems you described.

How about it, dodecahedron? Even Plextor drives fail sometimes... :wink: :D

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Postby articulate on Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:40 am

As for using old discs...I have a bunch of Traxdata Gold 1 - 6x discs made by Kodak Japan which were made in '97-'98 and still burn fine....
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Postby dodecahedron on Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:29 pm

cfitz wrote:How about it, dodecahedron? Even Plextor drives fail sometimes... :wink: :D


:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: LOL
yeah, i did say PLEXTOR RULES! on that other thread, but i was just joking! :D
come to think of it, my Plextor drive when i first got it was defective, would not open the tray, if you pressed the eject button it would just open a couple of millimeters, get stuck and go grr...grr..grr... had to have it replaced.

anyway, i don't think my drive is going to fail, not from overwork anyway LOL maybe from underwork.
just backed up My Documents today onto CD...the last time i backedup my system was 3 months ago :o and in between i can't believe i've burned more than 3 CDs at the outmost :-? guess i'm not much of a
POWER BURNER like some other guys round here huh?
hope i don't get kicked out of CDRLabs for not burning enough CDs :wink: :wink: :wink:
Last edited by dodecahedron on Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cfitz on Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:30 pm

dodecahedron wrote:...the last time i backedup my system was 3 months ago :o and in between i can't believe i've burned more than 3 CDs at the outmost :-? guess i'm not much of a
POWER BURNER huh?

You'd best be careful, or we'll have to take away your CD-RW Player badge! :wink: :D

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