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Image vs on the fly?

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Image vs on the fly?

Postby Intimidator on Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:28 pm

What is the best way to burn a CD using the LTR52246S? Make a image first or copy on the fly?

Thanks!
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Postby aviationwiz on Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:38 pm

I prefer making an image first, but it is all a matter of prefrence.
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Postby SPaulovic on Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:19 pm

Hello, I'm new to this forum although I've been reading it for over 2 years
now. I finally decided to join the discussions.

Yesterday I bought a Lite-On 52327S and now I'm also interested
in this topic because I have had the Traxdata 4x4x24 :roll: , so I had
to burn with images.

But now I'm also wondering if it really makes sense to do images
with my new drive, as it supports buffer-underrun-protection.

My advise is just to let the burner do the work instead of making
an image. I would only make images when using ImageDrive in Nero.
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Postby CDRecorder on Sun Jul 27, 2003 9:01 pm

I prefer making an image when I copy a disc because the burner won't have to pause recording to refill the buffer. As far as I know, burning from an image isn't really necessary, though.

Edit: Clarified my point. :D
Last edited by CDRecorder on Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:00 pm

I prefer making an image when I copy a disc because the burner won't have to pause recording to refill the buffer. As far as I know, it really isn't necessary, though.


I'll have to take exception to this; however, I may be wrong. Anyway, I don't think that the burner pauses to wait for the buffer to refill. If that were true, 8Mb buffered burners would burn much more slowly than 2Mb ones. The purpose of the buffer is to protect against discontinuous data flow to the burner from the source. As such it smoothes out discontinuous flow. It is true that the flow is more likely to be steady when burning from an image.

Burning from an image is in more reliable than direct, or on-the-fly, copying. It is also more slow as an overall process as it takes time to build the image. With older systems having prior generation burners, it was more important to burn from an image than it is using current gear. However, if one is experiencing a lot of coasters with direct copying, then image copies are the best way to avoid making coasters.

Direct copying is OK for CD-As as an errors most likely won't be heard. However, for burning data out to CDs for backup, I only burn from images as any errors at all are unacceptable. I would just as soon spend the extra time making an image as testing the burned backup CD to ensure that it isn't a coaster.
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Postby Debro on Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:33 pm

Depends on what you ar3e doing with it.

If you are backing up games, then images are definately necessary as the long reaeding times associated with reading (eg safedisc 1,2,2.5, etc)
or other processes required to back them up (eg securom) mean that the writing on the fly is not an option.

However when simply copying audio cd's or unprotected, etc then not much point making an image, on the fly is fine.

:)
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You are not the one.
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Postby Spazmogen on Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:24 am

I always image.
e6400 Core 2 Duo @ 2.13ghz
GeForce 7600GT 256mb PCI-e
2gb DDR2 667mhz Patriot ram 1.8v in d/c
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 F10 BIOS
WD Caviar SE16 250GB SATA300 7200RPM 16MB Buffer
Samsung SATA2 80gb 7200rpm
Samsung SH-S182D 18x DVD burner
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Postby SPaulovic on Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:48 pm

How does a 52x burner behave when writing from images
and when writing on-the-fly concerning the max. speed?
Is there any difference in reaching the max. speed?

I would be very proud if someone could explain this to me because
I ordered the Lite-ON 52327S and now I am not sure which burn option
would be the better one. :roll:

I have a Seagate Hard Drive ST320413A (5400 rpm), but I think that
my hard drive is fast enough to supply the burner with a continuos
stream while burning on-the-fly.
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Postby minix on Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:20 pm

Direct copying is OK for CD-As as an errors most likely won't be heard.


:-?
what errors?
Reading errors? burning errors?
The quality of a CD burned will be the same if the source is a hard disk or a CD-ROM, except for the fact that the CD-ROM is slower and there are more possibilities of buffer underrun or BurnProof activation.
Manufacturers say that stopping to wait for more data (that's BurnProof) doesn't affect quality, but I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe every time BurnProof is activated the gaps make the quality lower.

However, for burning data out to CDs for backup, I only burn from images as any errors at all are unacceptable.

A CD-ROM can't be read with errors. I mean the drive stops until the data is readable.
well, I'm seeing that Nero allows to "ignore read errors" !!!!
That's really stupid (unless you're copying a protected CD).

The point is: if there are errors in the source CD, you can't know it until you read it.
That's why I use image, usually.

If you do it on the fly, there are two options with data discs if there are errors:
- Burn is aborted.
- Burned disc has errors. (If you choose to ignore read errors).

I don't copy data discs (only mastering), so maybe I'm wrong.


Audio discs (unlike data discs) can be read incorrectly without warning.
I suppose this is what you meant before, CowboySlim.

CD-ROMs with jitter problems will have a lot more of problems with "on the fly" copies, because the target is much slower than reading to hard disk.
Fortunately, most modern drives don't have problems with jitter.
http://www.feurio.de/English/faq/faq_wr ... efly.shtml
http://www.feurio.de/English/faq/faq_vo ... copy.shtml

Newbies should always make an image until they learn how it works.
And people who know how it works usually make an image simply because it's safer. 8)
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Postby CowboySlim on Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:54 pm

Audio discs (unlike data discs) can be read incorrectly without warning.
I suppose this is what you meant before, CowboySlim.

Exactly. I'm quite sure that there is no error correction when burning an Audio CD; fortunately, most errors aren't audible. OTH, when the errors are real bad, you can hear them on replay. Remember, CD players don't error check input, they just play.
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Postby minix on Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:08 pm

I'm quite sure that there is no error correction when burning an Audio CD

That's why programs like EAC exist. I like identical audio copies.
They read twice and compare the audio data to make sure there were no errors.

OTH, when the errors are real bad, you can hear them on replay.


Besides, if the errors are really bad, the reading drive might stop and make retries. If the errors are slight, some drives slow down extraction (slow reading speeds = less errors).
Those are hints if you use non-secure ripping programs (like Nero or EasyCD). They are easier to "see/hear" if you make an image and not on the fly (only noise from the reading drive and speed not determined by writer).
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Postby David on Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:17 pm

I always burn from an image.
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Postby EatMoreChicken on Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:11 am

I always use image method as well b/c it's more reliable. On fly is actually slower for me.
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Postby Scrondar on Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:23 pm

Used to only burn from an image until the other day I forgot to tell Roxio to do that (settings got 'unset'), and it burned a disc on the fly, no problems at all. My old Plextor 8432 would never complete a successful on the fly burn, but my new LG 8420B does them with nary a burp.
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