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InCD 4.0.1.0

Nero Burning ROM, Nero Express, NeroVision Express, Recode, InCD, etc..

Postby KCK on Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:39 pm

Here are my delayed replies to some of the previous posts.

lucifer:

Does "the same problem" mean that the InCD Format window doesn't come up upon inserting a blank disc, with "Autorun on" and Autoplay properties set as in my former advice

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6950#66950

If yes, does it also fail when you subsequently press the burner's button to eject the disc, and press it again to load the disc for the second time?

As for your second observation, C:\Program Files\Ahead\InCd contains Error.log and SrvError.log. Apparently each file has a fixed size of 127746 bytes, and they list SCSI error messages which may assist Ahead in debugging InCD problems.

Pilgrim:

At this stage, instead of troubleshooting your Autoplay problems, it's better to wait for input from other users. If more people complain, Ahead will have to respond, sooner or later.

As for testing InCD speed, ideally you should time how long it takes to copy about 400 MB of data from your HD to an InCD disc (both for classic UDF 1.50 and MRW formats). My latest experiment with a 10x disc on LTR-48125W indicates about 4x.

The memory consumption on XP seems to be complex. In Task Manager, incdsrv.exe starts from 3356 KB on my box, going up to 6928 KB after formatting and copying. On the other hand, InCD.exe starts from 646 KB, but goes up to 7136 KB in my latest experiments (and 16584 KB occured in my earlier trials). Maybe this is just due to the way committed memory is reported, but I don't recall seeing anything similar with InCD 3.x.

The "timestamping bug" occurs if files copied to InCD discs get the current date instead of inheriting their source dates. I can now confirm that the bug occurs also for source files from an HDD (in addition to an InCD disc inserted in a DVD-ROM drive as I reported earlier). Namely, after copying 4422 files, I checked that 2156 files got the current date. This is a really serious bug, as it precludes any synchronizing backups.

Hazey:

In case of problems with a CD-RW disc, before formatting you should try "InCD Erase..." in Windows Explorer (right-click on the burner's drive). For InCD 4.x, this should be equivalent to calling Nero | Recorder |
EraseReWritable for "full-erase". Thus in your case I would try InCD's erase, and then Nero's full-erase. If this doesn't help, you could try other burners as suggested by LiteOnGuy, but I would reject such discs for backups.
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Postby David on Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:37 pm

Under Windows 2000 using a Benq 4824P I was unable to format a MRW CD. :(

I then tried to format a MRW CD with a LTR-52246S which was formated successfully :D

I suppect that there is still work to be done on the 4824P firmware on it's MRW support.
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Postby Hazey on Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:50 pm

Thanks KCK

I did try and use the InCD erase feature but it still wouldn't work. I'm wondering if there is a good software program that erases cdrw's. So far i've tried nero's erase function, InCD4's new erase function, and a program called Super Blank. Perhaps someone has another idea?

I don't care about $ it's just the principle of it. Like LIteonGuy said, there should be away to revive a cdrw. Once i've tried everything, then i'll toss em.

Cheers :) .
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Postby Hazey on Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:58 pm

David wrote:I suppect that there is still work to be done on the 4824P firmware on it's MRW support.


You took the words out of my mouth, I mean text from my finger tips :lol:

I have theBenQ5224P with the newly released firmware that is supposed to support Mt. Rainier. I have had nothing but problems. I believe it is likely that the problems i've been having may have more to do with crappy firmware then InCD 4 :x .

Cheers :) .
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Postby lucifer on Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:03 am

[quote]
lucifer:

Does "the same problem" mean that the InCD Format window doesn't come up upon inserting a blank disc, with "Autorun on" and Autoplay properties set as in my former advice

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6950#66950

If yes, does it also fail when you subsequently press the burner's button to eject the disc, and press it again to load the disc for the second time?
[/quote]

yes and yes... and again: absolutely no such problems with InCD 3.524

[quote]
As for your second observation, C:\Program Files\Ahead\InCd contains Error.log and SrvError.log. Apparently each file has a fixed size of 127746 bytes, and they list SCSI error messages which may assist Ahead in debugging InCD problem
[/quote]

yes, I see... they will know how to contact Plextor...
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Postby KCK on Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:01 am

EasyWriteReader 4.0.0.10 (663057 bytes) is now available on Ahead's site in Download Page | InCD | Utilities.

Note that for InCD 3.x you may need EasyWriteReader v1.0 (750220 bytes).

EasyWriteReader v1.0 (750220 bytes) is still available at

ftp://ftp.nero.com/EasyWriteReader.exe

ftp://ftp4.nero.com/EasyWriteReader.exe

ftp://ftp6.nero.com/EasyWriteReader.exe
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Postby KCK on Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:58 am

Hazey:

Could you explain your statement "I did try and use the InCD erase feature but it still wouldn't work" in more detail? Do you mean that after clicking "Start" in the "Erase E:\" window, you got a freeze or some error messages, or that the erasing operation completed successfully, but the subsequent formatting finished with errors?

Apparently both Nero (and hence InCD 4.0.1.0) and SuperBlank simply issue the MMC BLANK command with type "Blank the disc" to the burner, and the rest is done via the burner's firmware. Hence the final result should be the same for these programs if the same rewriting speed is employed. This speed can be controlled in Nero, but not in InCD; hence you could try several speed settings in Nero. On the other hand, before the BLANK command is issued, the disc must be recognized by the burner, and here these programs may be employing different strategies. In other words, one of these programs may be more successful than others in getting the disc stabilized in the burner before the blanking operation can start.
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Postby Hazey on Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:42 pm

Could you explain your statement "I did try and use the InCD erase feature but it still wouldn't work" in more detail? Do you mean that after clicking "Start" in the "Erase E:\" window, you got a freeze or some error messages, or that the erasing operation completed successfully, but the subsequent formatting finished with errors?


Sorry KCK, I should've given more details. The erase proceedure freezes up before it gets to the end. I can't even eject the disk. Ctl-Alt-Delete closes the prog but doesn't free the drive.The led continues to flash red. No error messages. I have to hard reboot to get the drive to free up and recover the cdrw.

As far as erasing the media, I had a bit of sucsess...Well sort of. I used CloneCd erase function and it actually reports that it sucsessfully completes. I then ran Nero cd Speed and ran the test to make a Data Cd. It performs the action at the rated speed with no problems. I then ran the scan disc test. Every block on the test was yellow :( . 100% of the disc was damaged. I then erased the cd. This time using InCD. It worked this time without freezing up. I then tried to format again(this time without MRW) but the drive froze up again.

I'm gonna go buy some more media today. I am also gonna test other packet-writing programs such as Direct CD and Stomp DLA to see if I can issolate the problems althought i would rather use InCD :wink: . I'll keep you posted on what, if anything I find.

Cheers :) .
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Postby KCK on Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:00 pm

Hazey:

I agree that it would be best to test other media at this stage.

As for other options, it seems that you had no problems with InCD 3.x on your Win98 box with BenQ 5224P using an older firmware, which didn't support MRW. Now, you are having difficulties with MRW, using InCD 4.0.1.0 and the new firmware. Well, these difficulties could be due to poor media, a mismatch between your media and burner, bugs in the firmware, or improper recognition of your burner by InCD. Thus, except for testing other media, you could wait for upgrades of firmware and/or InCD.

In the meantime, you could check if the classical UDF 1.50 (non-MRW) format works in your current configuration. If not, you could remove InCD 4.0.1.0 and install InCD 3.52.40 (if you don't have InCD3524.exe, check Ahead's ftp sites, e.g., ftp.nero.com, ftp2.nero.com, ftp3.nero.com, etc.). If you're lucky, it could allow you to use MRW with your new firmware!

Anyway, I would try the preceding options before testing DirectCD or DLA, mostly because if you wanted to switch back to InCD later, you might need to clean up Roxio's remnants if DirectCD doesn't uninstall cleanly via Add/Remove Programs (maybe DLA is better in this respect). Further, it would be better to check first whether DirectCD or DLA support MRW with your new firmware.
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Postby KCK on Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:33 pm

lucifer and Pilgrim:

I've just noticed another twist in the InCD autoplay issue.

After rebooting, when I insert a blank disc for the first time, nothing happens. However, when I next right-click on my burner's drive F: in Explorer, select `Properties' and then `Cancel' on the first 'General' tab, Autoplay starts working: after inserting a blank disc, I get the `Format F:\' window! Further, Autoplay continues to work until the next rebooting.

Thus apparently some Autoplay properties aren't initialized properly until Explorer is forced to "look closer" at the drive.

This is for XP SP1, Autorun on, and Autoplay set as in my former post:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6950#66950

Further, I don't know if they are relevant here, but I have Windows CD recording disabled and the IMAPI service set to manual. Hence you may experiment with their settings.

To disable Windows CD recording on your burner, right-click its drive in My Computer, select Properties | Recording, clear the check mark for "Enable CD recording on this drive", and click OK.

To disable the IMAPI service, go to Control Panel | Administrative Tools | Services, double-click "IMAPI CD Burning", set "Startup type: Disabled", and click Stop below "Service status".
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Postby Pilgrim on Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:03 pm

KCK,

I wish I could share in your partial success, but I can't. I have all the right configurations, etc... went through your little procedure and got nada! Image

I stopped and restarted the InCD service and got nada.

I tried some of the other options when using a "blank CD" in the Autoplay menu and got nothing to work.

So, it would appear that InCD isn't being recognized by the system. My guess is that Nero inadvertently left out a line or two of code! Image

Earlier today, I sent off a "bug" report to Nero's support team. Whether or not it will even be read, never mind acted upon remains to be seen.

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Postby Hazey on Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:40 am

Yea i'll probably revert back to InCD 3.52.4. I did have sucsess with that version. I think i'll just have to wait for another Incd update or a firmware update for my benQ

Thanks KCK for trying to help me out.

Cheers :) .
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Postby Hazey on Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:17 pm

When I try to burn a Cd-r using nero, my free memory drops to 0 and my burn speed also drops. I can't seem to burn past 24x now. I haven't messed with anything except install InCD 4. My question is how much of a Ram hog is InCD 4?

Also in a kind of related matter, i'm looking for a program that will tell me which programs are using what amount of ram at any given time. Kinda like a Ram monitor. This way I can rule in or out, InCD4.

Thanks

Cheers :) .
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Postby Pilgrim on Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:32 pm

Hazey,

I can't remember if you said what O/S you are running, but with XP you just key in "Ctrl+Alt+Del" and you get the Task Manager. Then click the "Processes" tab and you will see a list of everything that is running and how much memory it is using. It's been so long since I've run Win 98SE, that I can't remember if this applies to it, sorry.

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Postby Hazey on Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:18 am

Oops, Sorry pilgrim,
I should have included my OS in that message :oops: . I'm using win98 256megs of ram.

Cheers :) .
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Postby Hazey on Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:23 pm

Here's something else i found. I didn't notice this detail before because of all the formating problems I was having.
After formating a 650mb cdrw with InCD 4 there is only 438mb left on the disc :-? . With InCD 3.52.4 I believe after formating a 650mb disc I had alittle over 500mb left. Something like 532mb comes to mind.
Has anyone else noticed this?? I know different packet-writing programs use different amounts of disc space for formating but 212megs seems a bit much :o . Or is it?? Is this normal?? Just thought i'd ask. Thanks

Cheers :) .
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Postby KCK on Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:25 pm

Hazey:

I can only give figures for 80min/700MB discs, since I've not used 74min/650MB discs.

For MRW, the free capacity is 539 MB, with the used space 40KB for InCD 4.0.1.0, and 46-48KB for InCD 3.x.

For non-MRW, the free capacity is 572MB and the used space is 50-54KB for InCD 3.x; no figures yet for InCD 4.0.10.

I've not seen smaller free capacities so far, but I guess they might occur for damaged discs, where bad sectors are mapped out, thus diminishing the remaining free capacity.

Apparently your disc is damaged. You could check it by running Nero CD Speed | Extra | CD Quality and Scandisc, but only good sectors are tested. Here note that 539MB corresponds to 61:19.43min, and the length shown on the main screen of CD Speed is different from the one in CD Quality. Let's just say that we don't have a good tool for testing MRW discs.

I guess you are still using MRW, but please be more specific in the future. BTW, have you tested non-MRW?
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Postby Hazey on Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:48 am

Actually KCK,

That disc was formated non-MRW since i still can't get MRW format to work with the cdrw's(verbatim) I have. Not only that disc but 3 others that were formated non-MRW all came back with 438mb left on them. My 24x ulta-speed cdrw(It came with the drive) also shows 438 mb's left when non-MRW formated.

I took you advice and ran one of the discs threw scan disk. Here is the results:

Good: 99.67 %
Damaged: 0.17 %
Unreadable: 0.17 %

The very last block was the one reported as unreadable. Another thing, during the test all the dark grey boxes(i assume they represent the flie blocks on the disc) were not filled. There were still about 2 1/2 rows left. I don't know if that means anything.

One last thing. The drive is slow at releasing disc info. What I mean is for ex. If a put a formated disc named "music" in the drive the word music appears next to the cd icon in my computer. Now if I eject that disc and put in another named "programs" the drive still thinks that the disc titled music is in the drive. Sometimes it won't let me have access to the files until it sees the newer disc. To do this I have to hit refresh . This doesn't happen all the time but it does happen quit abit and it's a pain in rear. Do you know if this is an InCD 4, Windows, or a drive problem?
If you, or anyone knows how to fix this it would be greatly appreciated. Keep in mind i'm using Win98(first edition).

Well I think that's about it. Sorry if I forget to be specific with some info. I really appreciate all your help.

Cheers :) .
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Postby Hazey on Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:02 am

Well I can confirm that the size problem is a direct fault of InCD 4.

I just downgraded to InCD 3.52.4 and formated one of the exact verbatim cdrws that only showed 438megs in InCd 4. The results are that after InCD 3.52.4 formats the 650mb disc, I now have 538mb's left. I tried the MRW format and that leaves me with 502mb's of space left. This sounds more in line with your results KCK.

Cheers :) .
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:51 am

KCK wrote:EasyWriteReader 4.0.0.10 (663057 bytes) is now available on Ahead's site in Download Page | InCD | Utilities.

Note that for InCD 3.x you may need EasyWriteReader v1.0 (750220 bytes).

EasyWriteReader v1.0 (750220 bytes) is still available at

ftp://ftp.nero.com/EasyWriteReader.exe

ftp://ftp4.nero.com/EasyWriteReader.exe

ftp://ftp6.nero.com/EasyWriteReader.exe

this first of these links is indeed the older EasyWriteReader (750220 bytes). i think it is version 3.3.2.0, and not 1.0.0.1

the last 2 links are indeed for the newer 4.0.0.10 version.
(this info true as of June 4)
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Postby KCK on Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:13 pm

dodecahedron:

For a long time, but still in the days of InCD 3.x, Ahead used "v1.0" for whatever version of EasyWriteReader that happened to be linked on their download page, and the file sizes specified on Ahead's site didn't always correspond to the actual sizes of downloaded files. It is true that in at least two cases, Explorer | Properties | Version | File Version showed 1.0.0.1 and 3.3.2.0, and 3.3.2.0 is reported for the latest version which should be used with InCD 3.x.

I just checked that this version of 750220 bytes is still available at ftp.nero.com, ftp4.nero.com and ftp6.nero.com, i.e., the locations I listed on Monday. Maybe Ahead's sites were being reorganized when you looked.

Of course, Ahead should give proper links to InCD 3.52.40 and EasyWriteReader 3.3.2.0 while referring to InCD 3.x, instead of making users scan their continually changing ftp sites. :roll:

Another twist is that for EasyWriteReader 4.0.0.10 (663057 bytes), there is no Version tab in Explorer | Properties (on XP SP1).
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Postby KCK on Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:37 pm

Hazey:

First, the fact that you got the same free capacity of only 438MB on five 74min/650MB non-MRW discs suggests a bug in InCD 4.0.1.0.

Second, Scandisc shouldn't normally show damaged or unreadable sectors.

Third, your free capacity figures for InCD 3.52.40 look reasonable. Further, if I understood correctly, InCD 3.52.40 supports MRW for your burner, just as you wished. Are you still having disc recognition problems? If yes, do you have Autoinsert Notification on for your burner? (Use Control Panel | Device Manager to check and experiment with alternative settings.)
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Postby Hazey on Thu Jun 05, 2003 4:52 pm

Everything seems to be running smoothly with InCD 3.52.4. I'll just hang onto it for a while. Hopefully Ahead will fix the bug in InCD 4.

As far as the disc recognition problem goes. It's still happening. I'll tinker with the settings to see if it helps. I thought that Autoinsert notification should be disabled for most burning programs to work?.

Cheers :) .
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Postby KCK on Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:00 pm

I have Autoinsert Notification enabled on my 98SE box, and Nero works fine.

If you keep the Shift key pressed when a disc spins up after insertion, this should prevent Autoplay from kicking in when you don't want it.

The "proper" setting of Autoinsert Notification for InCD may depend on the burner, its firmware, IDE drivers, etc. Since Ahead gives conflicting recommendations in various places, you have to experiment.
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Postby rfdion on Thu Jun 05, 2003 8:25 pm

Another anomaly:

The bsudf.sys file in 4.0.x.x is version 3.3.1.0-337,536
in 3.5.24.0 its 3.5.24.0-389,504
It looks like Ahead took several steps back on this file in InCD4.

InCD4 was real buggy on my system have been running InCD since 3.20
without any major problems.
Windows XP HE /SP1 with all updates
LiteOn LTR-48125W SV0D

I went back to InCD 3.5.24.0.
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