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LDW-851S, overburning, TaiyoYuden, Nero

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LDW-851S, overburning, TaiyoYuden, Nero

Postby SkaarjMaster on Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:28 pm

I have some music on a continuous album (ok two albums) that I would like to put on one CD-R and it is 83:26 (83 minutes, 26 seconds). Any chance I can overburn it successfully on a Taiyo Yuden Silver 80-min CD-R using the Lite-On LDW-851S burner and Nero 6.3.1.6 software? If not, would changing the software help and to what? Thank you.
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Postby redk9258 on Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:00 am

Run CD DVD-Speed. I have some Fuji 80 min. CDs made by TY. CD-DVD Speed says you can overburn this disc (79:59.72) by 2:33.33 for a total of 82:33.30.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:55 pm

OK, I must be doing something wrong because at the end of every overburn test I try it says,"Writing stopped without an error. Use a larger value of the maximum capacity." I used the default that came up of 89:??.??, then 90:00.00 and then 99:00.00 and got the same message.

The disc info shows 79:59.72 as the capacity with 703MB for data and 807MB for audio. Just before I start the test, it asks me,"most recorders can't write more than 90 minutes. Do you want to continute?" I say Yes to this. WTF, either the test capacity going to be less than 90 minutes or greater than 100 minutes, WTF, they can't have it both ways! :x

I'm trying all these overburn tests so far at 40X and then when I actually got some results, I was going to try again at 8X. I'm not checking RAW mode either. What am I doing wrong? Can I still burn on the disc that I'm running these tests on or is it toast? Thank you.

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Postby dodecahedron on Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:57 pm

you can test overburning capacity with Nero CDSpeed.

when overburning, don't burn fast. try 16x, 24x.

(this advice coming to you from someone who has never overburned!)
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Postby eric93se on Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:40 pm

when I used to overburn cd's, I used 4x and 8x (two different media's). Any other speed and it would'nt work.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:44 pm

Well, I guess I'll just try the test at 8X right away. Any advice on the other correct settings discusses above?
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:18 pm

Anyone know the correct settings for the overburn test with 80 minute CD-Rs?
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:09 am

Hello?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:28 am

Every drive can overburn different amounts, starting with 0:00 (not at all), up to an additional 19:99 (on specialized media). Add to that the fact that each disc can be overburned a different amount (some might be able to handle only a few seconds, and some might be able to handle a few minutes! assuming regular and not specialized media), and you've got yourself a combination that can cause some serious frustration if you're looking for regular results. It's a lot like overclocking a CPU, sometimes you can go nuts, and sometimes you can't do anything.

Now with Nero CD/DVD Speed, keep in mind the overburning tests are *ONLY* projected maximums, and sometimes they are 100% wrong (note: this is why I personally NEVER rely on them, and for my reviews, I always BURN a 99min specialized CD-R!).

One thing to consider is that when you overburn a disc, the quality is going to go down considerably with each extra second of audio (or MB of data). So only do it when you need to!

As for what speed to use... it depends on the burner what is best (and again, the media!). Some work best at 12x or 16x, and others work best at 4x or 8x. DO NOT BURN FASTER THEN 16x! It will almost always (I've NEVER seen it not) cause coasters or MUCH higher error rates.

Also, don't worry about the warnings from Nero when overburning, they are there simply so that Nero can cover it's butt if something goes unusually wrong, which I've NEVER seen or heard of happening.

I used to overburn media quite a bit actually (it became a bit of a hobby for me), so feel free to ask if you have any more questions :D
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:17 pm

So, how do I get it to show me what the total amount that can be burned (i.e. - 82:23.00 or 83:00.00)? It doesn't show me this number, so I assumed I did something wrong. I guess I'll choose 8X and leave the default maximum, but should I also leave Raw mode unchecked?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:23 pm

SkaarjMaster wrote:So, how do I get it to show me what the total amount that can be burned (i.e. - 82:23.00 or 83:00.00)? It doesn't show me this number, so I assumed I did something wrong. I guess I'll choose 8X and leave the default maximum, but should I also leave Raw mode unchecked?


Are you talking about burning a CDR, or just doing a test in Nero CD/DVD Speed?

There *IS* no guarenteed maximum. It's always a crapshoot, like overclocking a CPU.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:26 pm

Just running a Nero CD-DVD Speed test with a CD-R in the drive. Why won't it show me the maximum number at the end of the test and should Raw mode be checked or unchecked?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:12 pm

SkaarjMaster wrote:Just running a Nero CD-DVD Speed test with a CD-R in the drive. Why won't it show me the maximum number at the end of the test and should Raw mode be checked or unchecked?


It won't tell you because there are flaws in the testing method. I once had it tell me that I could overburn up to 99:59 onto a mini CD-R of 22min capacity (yeah, like THAT'S going to happen! LOL).

As for Raw or not Raw, I have never figured out what it did. Sorry! (You can try e-mailing Erik Depp, he's pretty good with these sorts of things).
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:02 pm

Have you had it tell you this stuff with versions compatible with your burner (or the burner you were using at the time)? Based on a quick trip over to CDSpeed2000, it looks like the version I'm using (2.11.4f) is not compatible with the 851S, but I was kinda worried about installing a new version that doesn't work with Nero 6.3.1.6............or maybe it doesn't matter.

I know I may seem a little persistant, but I just wanted to get this thing working right for me. Looks like I have some options at this point:

1. Screw CD-DVD Speed and just see what a simulated burn does in Nero or Nero Express?
2. Update my CD-DVD Speed version, run at 8X and see if I get any meaningful results.
3. Just forget overburning over 83 minutes and accept the 82:33.30 number reported by redk9258 as a good possible maximum.
4. Use another program to check overburning suggested in this thread (hint..hint..;))
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:47 pm

SkaarjMaster wrote:Have you had it tell you this stuff with versions compatible with your burner (or the burner you were using at the time)? Based on a quick trip over to CDSpeed2000, it looks like the version I'm using (2.11.4f) is not compatible with the 851S, but I was kinda worried about installing a new version that doesn't work with Nero 6.3.1.6............or maybe it doesn't matter.

I know I may seem a little persistant, but I just wanted to get this thing working right for me. Looks like I have some options at this point:

1. Screw CD-DVD Speed and just see what a simulated burn does in Nero or Nero Express?
2. Update my CD-DVD Speed version, run at 8X and see if I get any meaningful results.
3. Just forget overburning over 83 minutes and accept the 82:33.30 number reported by redk9258 as a good possible maximum.
4. Use another program to check overburning suggested in this thread (hint..hint..;))


Unless you have a short supply of media, I suggest just attempting a REAL burn of the disc, with the capacity you need. You will NEVER get consistant results, no matter what one program or another program tells you. Every disc you burn will be a little more or a little less forgiving then the last. But if you actually succeed in getting 83min out of an 80min disc, I'll be impressed!

What I do on my PC, is I just allow overburning up to 99:59 through the expert setting of Nero, and I just don't abuse it. I'll sneak in an extra minute here and there, but I pay attention to the capacity I'm burning. If you try to abuse the media too much, it'll fail, that's all there is to it.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:19 pm

Thanks for the info. I was just trying to duplicate the results, so that I could tell myself to not even try to burn that 83+ minutes of music. I'll just burn it on 2 CDs. It was the only set of music that was borderlined for me. Everything else was either under 80 minutes or way over at 87 minutes or above. I may try the newest version of Nero CD-DVD Speed anyway, but I'm not sure yet.

"There's no such thing as too much blank media!"
That reminds me, I'll eventually have to order more TY CD-Rs so I might as well order some now, hehe.;)
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Postby RJW on Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:11 pm

Hmm 83+ minutes that would most times just fail on TY.

For these sort of occasions I use real 90 minutes media By TDK.
Only problem seems that these are ultra RARE.
Specially outside Europe and Japan.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:13 pm

Then, if you do find 90-minute CD-Rs, will it work with your burner? And at this point if let's say I do burn something on a 90-minute CD-R......will it work in my car stereo player. Yep, definitely looking like 2 CDs for that burn for sure. 8)
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:15 pm

SkaarjMaster wrote:Then, if you do find 90-minute CD-Rs, will it work with your burner? And at this point if let's say I do burn something on a 90-minute CD-R......will it work in my car stereo player. Yep, definitely looking like 2 CDs for that burn for sure. 8)


You could always buy a Plextor Premium and use GigaRecord.... but no guarentees on the Car Stereo either.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:45 pm

Big bump! :D Haven't needed to try anything past 80:00 yet until now. I'm going to use all the stuff mentioned in the title of this thread and try burning 80:33 at 8x. Hopefully, this won't be enough to mess with the quality too much. If the burn seems successful and after I listen to it (maybe not until mid-week), I'll chime back with results of the listen. Oh, just before burning Nero is showing 80:43 even with no pause between tracks checked.
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Postby SkaarjMaster on Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:11 pm

It worked! :D
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