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LiteOn LTR-52327S does NOT handle TY very well?

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LiteOn LTR-52327S does NOT handle TY very well?

Postby XIII on Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:46 pm

Hi,

I was finally able to get some Taiyo Yuden discs in the Netherlands (100 for 45 euro), but I am not very pleased with them so far. I tried two discs and both reached speed 3?x and then dropped again, at the end of the disc only reaching 39x instead of 52x with other discs (Platinum, Philips) on my LiteOn LTR-52327S with firmware QS0B. The discs were sold as 52x (and are identified like that by SmartBurn).

I thought both disc and drive were very good, but now I have my doubts about these rather expensive TY discs.

Are disc and drive not very compatible?

This is how the discs are identified by SmartBurn:

Code: Select all
        Drive Type = CD-RW   
         Disc Type = CDR
          Material = Cyanine
           Lead In = 97:24:01
          Lead Out = 79:59:72
  Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB
Manufacturer Maybe = Taiyo Yuden Company Limited
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X (Write)
Last edited by XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby vsekh on Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:31 pm

I was only able to reach 41x with Fuji brand and Maxell CDR-Pro TY media. I did not have this problem with the Liteon 52x24x52 burner. This Liteon burner is really picky about media. I cannot even get a 52x burn with Verbatim 48x or 52x media either.

Burn quality is why others have praised this burner.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:37 pm

yeah, well, I can't get past 40x on Fuji 48x Taiyo Yuden media on my LiteON 48125W, LiteON LDW-411s, LG 52x32x52x or Plextor Premium drive...
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Postby Action Jackson on Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:38 pm

I'm not sure that I can trust the new SmartBURN analyzer.

I used the QSOC firmware and the SBA said my 40x Ritek can go 52x as well.

Not even close and I had 1 coaster!
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Postby CDRecorder on Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:00 pm

Wow, that's really strange. I can write 40x and 48x TY (Fuji) media at 52x on my 52327S without the speed dropping, and the recording quality is very good.
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Is it normal to see two rings?

Postby XIII on Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:33 am

When I look at the discs that dropped speed during burning, I see two rings (probably the border is at the point where the speed dropped). Is this normal?

I will try to burn at 40x and/or 48x iso 52x tonight...
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Postby RJW on Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:48 am

Were did you get the media from ?

I have seen this model burning at 52x with excellent results on my Plextor (TY 48x)disc's with a average C1 error rate below 0.2 . Now the production quality could have made a slightly more picky drive than normal or it's the media.
I could send you 1 or 2 Plextor (TY) disc's to see if it's the batch or the drive. Use PM to contact me.

The Platinums and Philips are riteks I guess.
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Postby rdgrimes on Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:05 am

This is a drive-specific issue. Some will do it more than others, and firmware plays a big role as well. Different batches of media will behave differently too. I never burn at 52x, always 48x, and rarely see any slowdown on any media.
Basically, it's because your laser is too hot for the media. A drive that is in a hot environment will be much worse at this too, so have a look at your case cooling. Are discs coming out of the drive very warm? Does the first burn complete at full speed and later burns run slower?
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Postby XIII on Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:54 pm

RJW wrote:Were did you get the media from ?


A company called Iwonatec that normally sells via http://www.cdrpagina.nl, but I bought the disc from them at the 3 day HCC computer fair.

RJW wrote:I have seen this model burning at 52x with excellent results on my Plextor (TY 48x)disc's with a average C1 error rate below 0.2 . Now the production quality could have made a slightly more picky drive than normal or it's the media.
I could send you 1 or 2 Plextor (TY) disc's to see if it's the batch or the drive. Use PM to contact me.


The same company sold 50 Plextor TY's for 29 euro. Even more expensive than 100 TY for 45 euro. So I decided not to buy those. It might be nice to try one though.

RJW wrote:The Platinums and Philips are riteks I guess


Correct!
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Am I hot or not? ;-)

Postby XIII on Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:00 pm

rdgrimes wrote:Basically, it's because your laser is too hot for the media. A drive that is in a hot environment will be much worse at this too, so have a look at your case cooling.


Temperatures:

Code: Select all
CPU Board:     35 C
CPU:           37 C
GPU:           50 C
GPU board:     36 C
HDD:           27 C
Room:          20 C


That's not too hot now, is it? Quite some fans in my case...

rdgrimes wrote:Are discs coming out of the drive very warm? Does the first burn complete at full speed and later burns run slower?


No, they are not hot and they were all the first and only disc burned that night. The burner is at the top of the case though (and isn't hot air ascending to the top of the case?).
Last edited by XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rdgrimes on Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:03 pm

No, they are not hot and they were all the first and only disc burned that night. The burner is at the top at of the case though (and isn't hot air ascending to the top of the case?).

Sounds OK, if the discs are not warm to touch. But here I've found that the cooler the drive, the faster the burn and lower error rates too. you may just have a finicky drive.
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Additional results

Postby XIII on Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:11 pm

Behaviour of LTR-52327S with firmware QS0B on TY discs as described before (slowing down) both for 52x and 48x with these results:

TY 52x:
Image

TY 48x:
Image

With 40x there is a hardly noticeable slow down, and you see only one ring on the burned disc instead of two. Results:

TY 40x:
Image

Then I tried a Verbatim 48x disc at 52x. Same behaviour! Slow down...

Verbatim/MC 52x:
Image

Time to try a Ritek disc (Philips 52x) at 52... This one really went up to 52x without any slowdown!

Philips/Ritek 52x:
Image

Must I conclude that my drive only likes Ritek discs and should I not have bought TY discs (which I thought were "the best")?
Last edited by XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Without SmartBurn?

Postby XIII on Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:14 pm

BTW. All tests with SmartBurn on. Perhaps I should try one without SmartBurn enabled and see what happens?
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Postby vsekh on Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:20 pm

My Liteon is able to burn at 52x speed with TDK 52x Ritek CDRs and Maxell 48x Ritek CDRs. Looks like the drive likes Ritek CDRs.

Now if I burn a music CD with the TY media or Verbatim, then there is no slowdowns. Only when creating data CDs.
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Postby rdgrimes on Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:16 pm

Turning off SmartBurn will have no effect on this, only on the initial speed settings.
None of the scans are in any way concerning, they're all very good discs.
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Postby Jim on Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:55 pm

I've been using a lot of Ritek discs lately and have been burning them at various speeds using both Nero 5.5.10.54 and Easy CD Creator 6.2.0.110. I scan all the discs with K-probe after. I've found that buring the Riteks at 12x yields a C1 average around 0.2xx, the lowest. Speeds faster and slower than this return a higher C1 average up to around 1.5xx. Using the Smartburn speed in Easy CD Creator the discs burn anywhere from 48-52, but have a C1 average around 1.5xx. No reported C2 errors and the data passes verification after.

I should also add that I've been burning almost the same, in some cases exactly the same, amount of data to all the discs which is close to 700 MB.

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No time today...

Postby XIII on Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:27 pm

Sorry, had no time for further testing today.

Tried just one thing: downgrading to QS09, but the behaviour remains the same: slowdown on TY discs.

Have just upgraded to QS0C and will try to burn 1 disc with this tomorrow. Perhaps I can also try to turn of Smart-Burn tomorrow.

Still wondering...
Last edited by XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Finicky?

Postby XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:55 am

rdgrimes wrote:You may just have a finicky drive.


Unfortunately, English is not my native language. I have never heard of the word "finicky" before. What does it mean?
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Now what?

Postby XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:05 am

Found some time do some more tests.

TY 52x with QS09 (1 step down): slowdown with these results:
Image

TY 52x with QS0C (1 step up): slowdown with these results:
Image
(note that the image says QS0B because I immediately downgraded again to QS0B after burning, before running K-Probe)

TY 52x with QS0B with SmartBurn disabled: still slowdown with these results:
Image

What's the use of disabling SmartBurn if it still slows down to improve quality?

I know the results are not too bad, but I am really disappointed that I paid that much for TY discs and I am unable to burn them at 52x, which I could do with much cheaper Ritek discs (which even seem to have better quality at 52x) :cry:

Is there anything else to try, or should I stick to Ritek in the future (and perhaps sell those 80+ TY's left)?
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No slowdown with music, less quality

Postby XIII on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:47 am

vsekh wrote:Now if I burn a music CD with the TY media or Verbatim, then there is no slowdowns. Only when creating data CDs.


Indeed. I just burned a music disc at 52x without slowdown and reaching almost 52x at the end of the disc. As might be expected, the result is less good (and yes I know I should not burn audio CD's at 52x, this was just for testing purposes):

Image
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Postby rdgrimes on Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:32 pm

What's the use of disabling SmartBurn if it still slows down to improve quality?

As I stated above, there is no reason to disable SmartBurn, it has no effect on running power calibration, which is what is slowing the burn.
None of the posted scans are in any way negative, the differences are insignificant.
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Postby vsekh on Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:41 pm

My audio CDs work fine even when they were burned at 52x speed.
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What does SmartBurn do?

Postby XIII on Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:15 pm

rdgrimes wrote:As I stated above, there is no reason to disable SmartBurn, it has no effect on running power calibration


I guess I have/had a wrong idea of what SmartBurn does.

Where can I find what it really does?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:31 pm

I wonder why LiteON's RPC changes the speed on my Taiyo Yuden, but not as much on my CMC.... :-?

By the way, I find that using Alcohol 120% sometimes results in no slow down.... figure THAT one out!
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Ritek it is?

Postby XIII on Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:08 am

And here is a scan of a Maxell-S/Ritek which also went up to 52x without slowdown:

Image

My drive really seems to prefer Riteks?

(as far as speed is concerned, write quality is obviously less good for this disc)
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