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LiteOn SOHW 1653 Write Quality

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

LiteOn SOHW 1653 Write Quality

Postby GiulioSoft on Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:17 pm

Finally I got my so-long-dreamed LiteOn SOHW 1653... but...

Yes. I'm very happy how it writes CDs... quite low C1 errors (a lot less than my old 24102B), fast and not so noisy.

Then I put in a DVD and the story changes: Liteon says 16x reading speed but perhaps 16x with pressed media... certainly not 16x with burned media... tops out at 8x. Err... that's not what I was looking for so some cute toys like Omnipatcher helped me "solve" this problem... at least now it reads at 12x... not bad...
Then I burn my (first!) DVD... it's a DVD-R brand Philibs (ATIP reads FUJIFILM03)... great I've seen a review with the SOHW1633 and these disks that gave neat results... let's burn it @6x... just to make sure it writes well......

What?!?

"It isn't well written" says Kprobe and Nero CDSpeed... oh great... let's have a look down here... I don't think that seeing so much red in PIF is good... I was used to see screenshots with 1-2 max PIF errors... not 208...

Image

PS: Despite the poooooor quality I am able to read it...
PS2: why the max. value for PIF is 208 and the average reads 564.80? Err... do I have to learn better maths?

However... any ideas?

PS3: No... I haven't messed up with strange settings in Omnipatcher......
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Re: LiteOn SOHW 1653 Write Quality

Postby MediumRare on Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:43 pm

There are a number of things that could give you high error rates:
- bad media
- "old" firmware (though CS02 is all ther is for the 1653S at present)
- since it's youur first burn, the drive hasn't been able to do it's "learning". In the course of 4 burns, it is able to tune the writing stretegy somehwat and may give better reults. Your scan is rather miserable though.
- you got a bum drive.

GiulioSoft wrote:PS2: why the max. value for PIF is 208 and the average reads 564.80? Err... do I have to learn better maths?

However... any ideas?

PS3: No... I haven't messed up with strange settings in Omnipatcher......

I posted this at CDFreaks a while ago, but it's worth repeating here:

The average PIF values reported stating with version 2.4.1 changed from version 2.4.0 and are now ca. 8x higher, the totals and max. don't change.

The new method for determining the average PIF rate is incorrect for ECC=8/1. This is now:

... PIF (average) = PIF (Total) / No. of PI samples

You can find the no. of PI/PIF samples by counting lines in a RAW or CSV file. The no. of PIF samples is ca. 7x the no. of PI samples (ideally it would be 8x here). This leads to the absurd result that the average value can be higher than the maximum value. This was the case at the beginning of a +RW disc scanned at max (=12x). Here the summary file from an aborted scan:
Code: Select all
Date                     : 11.09.2004 22:50:52
Model                    : 0-0-1-0 LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1633S BS0C
Disc                     : DVD+RW , MKMA02 [Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation]
Speed                    : Max
ECC blocks sum (PI/PIF)  : 8/1
Scanned range            : 0 - 67349
Sampling count           : 3652
Errors                   : 0
PI Max                   : 665
PI Average               : 209.10
PI Total                 : 107878
PIF Max                  : 49
PIF Average              : 70.37
PIF Total                : 36451

The Sampling count reported is the number of PIF samples, so the true average would be "only" 9.98 instead of 70.37 in this case (bad enough, but less than the max. number).

G
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Postby GiulioSoft on Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:31 am

Thanks for the suggestion/explanation!
One thing I can't understand is the "plateau" of errors at the beginning: here it seems the graph has been cut away, but it's right, Nero shows a lot of errors with the same value... (208 PIF)

Image

Can perhaps an EEPROM reset help? (I still have the original one backed-up... just in case...)...
Or it's better if I write a few disks? Perhaps DVD+-RW so I won't burn these expensive coasters...
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Postby rdgrimes on Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:41 am

Unfortunately, a high percentage of LO drives are just bad. If you have some TY, try that, if it's still crappy, RMA the drive.
Current drives running here: ND-2500A, ND-3500A, ND-3520A,
LTR-52327S, SOHW-1633S, SOHR-52A8S
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Postby GiulioSoft on Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:04 pm

Hmm... by

If you have some TY, try that


I guess you mean Taiko Yuden media... right? Yes... can do that with some DVD+RW...

What about using EEPROM Utility ?

Reset Learnt Media
This option will clear all of the learnt media calibration data and flush the four burn logs. This is similar to reloading an EEPROM file which has not burnt any media. Remember it may take two to four burns before optimum results are achieved after resetting the calibration data. If you already have good burns then this option is not for you.


Could solve something... or not?
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Postby GiulioSoft on Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:50 pm

I found this somewhere... like http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Plextor/ ...

The highest possible values are 1664 for PIE and 208 for PIF, so it does not make sense to set higher values than the default ones for the scales.


Cool! I have a drive that burns in the worst possible way :-?

That's not good...

... to kill the Quality-Test guy @ LiteOn who checked this drive is not enough I think...
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Postby Gabe on Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:16 am

Hi!

I bought the Lite 1653S only for testing DVD´s, but I daring to burn a DVD-R, here is the compare with my Pioneer DVR MCC:

Sony DVD-R 8x

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:SONY08D1]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Sony Recording Media Co.]
Manufacturer ID : [SONY08D1]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x , 4x]
[6x And Higher Might Not Always Be Detectable]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Burned with LiteOn SOHW 1653S CS0C @12x, 07:51Min:sec, 4363MB

Image

Burned with Pioneer DVR MCC 1.11 @8x, 07:54 Min:sec, 4422MB

Image

You see that the Pioneer burns at 8x 4422MB in only 3 seconds more than the Lite burns 4363MB at 12x; the writing quality is also better with the Pioneer. And the Sony DVD-R is one of the best choices for the Lite, with other media is the Lite more worse.

So I say take the Pioneer, if you want to make your choice only from this 3 drives.

Or get an LG, maybe a Benq.
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:07 am

Gabe,
could you please do a transfer rate test with CD-Speed on those discs (both with the 1653S and another drive)? I've found that the transfer rate drops dramatically at positions where those isolated PIF-spikes occur (both on my LTD-163 and SOHW 1213S@1633S/BSOS). Contrary to general belief, they aren't harmless (at least not the ones my burner finds :evil:).

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Postby Gabe on Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:15 am

No prob :)

DVD 1 (burned with Pioneer DVR MCC @8x)

LiteOn 166S

Image

LiteOn 1653S

Image

Pioneer DVR MCC

Image

AOpen 1648 AAP

Image

LG GSA 4082

Image


DVD 2 (burned with LiteOn 1653S)

LiteOn 166S

Image

LiteOn 1653S

Image

Pioneer DVR MCC

Image

AOpen 1648AAP

Image

LG GSA 4082:

Image
Last edited by Gabe on Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
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Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:42 pm

Gabe- both your burns seem to be fine.
Let me explain why I wanted to see the transfer rate. Last year, I burned a small series of videos with my SOHW-1213S@1633S (BS41). This firmware is essentially the same as CS09 (?) and is really a 1653S fw released by LiteOn America under the other model name, so this post is not (much) off topic.

Have a look at this KProbe scan:

Image

Note the logarithmic scale. The PIF-spikes are significant: they account for about 1/3 of the PIF count. This scan looks rather good, if you discount the spikes- which may be "glitches". But they're not in this case. Here's a transfer rate curve on my LTD-163:

Image

The dips are at exactly the position of those isolated spikes! And I saw similar behaviour at several positions in all burns of that small series of 8 (and in most burns done with BS41)! So I've come to take all PIF-peaks seriously!

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Postby Gabe on Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:07 am

@MediumRare:

I see you use a hacked FW for your 163 which offers higher speed. I think that´s the reason for the slowdowns while reading.
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
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Postby MediumRare on Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:30 am

Gabe wrote:@MediumRare:

I see you use a hacked FW for your 163 which offers higher speed. I think that´s the reason for the slowdowns while reading.

It's not hacked- it's just old :wink:.

I'm aware that the higher speeds could cause problems, but surely not at the start of the disc. The dips also show up on scans with my burner (on other discs- I don't have this one anymore).

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Postby Gabe on Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:33 am

Hi!

Jepp, I saw you set the book-type to DVD-Rom? Now I don´t wonder why your 163 read so fast
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
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Postby Gabe on Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:21 am

Hi!

@MediumRare:

I tested some media again, but now with max. speed of 4x. Now I don´t have the high spikes. The high spikes happens with higer reading speed only.
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
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Postby MediumRare on Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:44 pm

Gabe wrote:Hi!

@MediumRare:

I tested some media again, but now with max. speed of 4x. Now I don´t have the high spikes. The high spikes happens with higer reading speed only.

Thanks for mentioning that, Gabe. I should have noticed that you scanned at max (=8x?). :oops: I get similar spikes (and more of them) for all scans at CAV (6x and higher) since upgrading from 1213S firmware. Spikes that show @4x are the ones I worry about.

I've made a habit of scanning most disks @4x (CLV) and 6x (CAV), mainly because of the strange behaviour the 1213S showed (see this post and this post).

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Postby Gabe on Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:28 pm

Hi!

@MediumRare:

Jepp, I test it @6x with my 1653S, there spikes. With 4x are such spikes not exists.


I made a new quality-test with Infosmart from Hyundai:

LiteOn 1653S with CS0C, burned @4x:

Image

LiteOn 1653S with CSTJ, burned @8x:

Image


I´m really surprised that with CSTJ-FW the writing-quality with that crappy media is better than with former FW and 4x speed.

And with old FW my 1653s stopps sometimes with an write-error @4x, this happens now not @8x with new FW

Good work for this media, LiteOn :)
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
Gabe
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