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Liteon or Yamaha?

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Liteon or Yamaha?

Postby lppnet on Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:53 am

Considering to replace my 2 years old Cyberdrive 52x CD-ROM, which is dying, with a second CDRW drive. Should I wait for the Liteon 52x32x52x or go for theYamaha F1? I'm quite satisfied with my current LTR-52246S. But the LTR-52246S doesn't like the Mitsui Gold 24x (Made in Taiwan) very much. After burning 9 of them, I only can get a single disc (at 12x) that without C2 errors. I can get the Yamaha F1 for RM284 (around USD75). It is a good deal? Is the Yamaha has a better writing quality compare to Liteon? Anyone had experience with the Yamaha and Mitsui combination? Thanks in advance for the advices and guides. :wink:
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Postby cfitz on Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:37 am

Yamaha makes nice drives, but I wouldn't say that their write quality is clearly better than LiteOn. Here's a Fuji/TY disc burned and tested at 48x on my LTR-48246S:

Image

That is a really great result, and would be hard to beat with any drive.

I also have some results of Mitsui Silver 24x media burns that more directly relate to your question, starting with a burn on my Yamaha CRW-3200EZ:

Image

That is a very good burn, up until the outer edge where some C2 errors show up.

The same media burned on the LiteOn at 24x doesn't do so well:

Image

However, allowing the LiteOn's SMART-BURN system to set the speed (it picked 40x) produces a burn not quite as good as the Yamaha's, but still very comparable:

Image

That's certainly a good advertisement for SMART-BURN, and isn't the first time I have seen a newer, high-speed drive burn with better quality at a higher speed. Presumably the high-speed drives are optimized for high-speed burning, and low-speed burning may suffer as a result.

Finally, here is the same disc tested at 8x read speed:

Image

Dropping the read speed to 8x eliminates the C2 errors at the end of the burn, making for a good overall result. The same holds true for the disc burned by the Yamaha.

My conclusion? The LiteOn is comparable to the Yamaha in writing quality, doing better in some cases and worse in others. Burns from both drives showed some C2 errors at the edge of the Mitsui media, so it may be the media itself that has a little trouble at the far reaches. There is also a possibility that the LiteOn, which was used exclusively for testing since the Yamaha reports neither C1 nor C2 errors, has trouble reading the outer edges of the Mitsui media at high speeds. But I discount that possibility somewhat because I get similar results in other drives using CD Speed.

Were the C2 errors on your Mitsui Gold disc confined to the outer edges also? The discs I tested were 80-minute discs. Perhaps the 74-minute discs wouldn't have the problem.

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Postby lppnet on Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:06 pm

Mitsui Gold Branded 24x and Mitsui Gold Unbranded 24x
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 27s 56f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Mitsui
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 24X

cfiz - The Mitsui Gold that I had is 80min.

For the first time I bought 5 Mitsui Gold Branded 24x and 2 Mitsui Gold Unbranded 24x. Only can get 1 disc that burn without c2 errors. The only good burn is at 12x (Mitsui Gold Unbranded).The CD Doctor even cannot finish the test for the Mitsui Gold Branded 24x discs. So have to scan it in CDSpeed. From the CD Speed result, the errors did occur at the start until the end of the disc. I did try to burn it at 24x, 16x and 12x. The results at 24x and 16x are quite.

Here are the results for Mitsui Gold Branded:
http://www.geocities.com/lppnet/mitsuibranded.htm
Here is a result for Mitsui Gold Unbranded
http://www.geocities.com/lppnet/mitsuiunbranded.htm


The second time I bought a pack of 10 Mitsui Gold Unbranded 24x because I thought it can burn at 12x. Opsss! Really feel cheated after burning it. First I burned it at 12x and it got c2 errors. So I tried it at 8x. The same result as the one that burned in 12x. Errors occur at the same position, around 40min. This time CD Doctor works for it.

cfiz - I agreed with you that the disc would not produce any c2 errors when read it at 8x in CD Doctor.

Here are the results for the second batch of Mitsui Gold Unbranded:
http://www.geocities.com/lppnet/mitsuiunbranded2.htm


The back of the packaging stated that defected Mitsui cdr can get for a replacement. Do you think that I am entitled to the claim? I pay RM3.50 (around USD1) for each of it. With that price, I can get 2 Sony/TY 32x, which give me 0.03 average of c1 errors. If you owned a Liteon LTR-52246S, believe me to stay away from Mitsui's Taiwan made cdr. It did not worth the money that you pay for it.
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Postby lppnet on Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:14 pm

Ok! Back to the topic. Liteon or Yamaha? Need a quick decision here. Go for the Yamaha F1 or wait for the Liteon to come out for a new model (32x rewrite)? Need more opinions :wink:
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Postby BuddhaTB on Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:26 pm

lppnet wrote:Ok! Back to the topic. Liteon or Yamaha? Need a quick decision here. Go for the Yamaha F1 or wait for the Liteon to come out for a new model (32x rewrite)? Need more opinions :wink:

Since you already own a Lite-On 52x24x52, I would suggest getting the Yamaha. Then you have the best of both companies, instead of having two very similiar Lite-On drives on the same computer.
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Postby cfitz on Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:03 pm

Yow, those burns are a mess. And for such expensive media, it is certainly discouraging. It might be worth an email to MAM, asking them for their thoughts and some replacement discs.

For what it is worth, there is a reasonable chance my Mitsui discs were made in the USA. I don't have the packaging and can't remember with certainty, but I think I saw "Made in USA" somewhere.

You might want to check out Mitsui's new 52x media and see if it gives you any better results:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 4939#54939

Maybe you can convince Mitsui to replace your 24x discs with some new 52x ones.

As for choosing between another LiteOn or the Yamaha, if the extra expense isn't an issue for you, I think BuddhaTB's recommendation makes good sense. Cover all your bases. That's what I did - one LiteOn and one Yamaha.

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Postby lppnet on Wed Feb 26, 2003 5:09 pm

cfitz wrote:It might be worth an email to MAM, asking them for their thoughts and some replacement discs.


Yup. I'm sending my mail now. Last time I did ask them about the quality of Mitsui's Taiwan cdr. Mitsui Japan replied me by assuring that the quality is much the same as the MAM and MAM-E cdrs.

cfitz wrote:Maybe you can convince Mitsui to replace your 24x discs with some new 52x ones.


I really hope that I'm living in US. Quality cdrs are widely available and cheap. Based on Mitsui Chemical Japan website (http://www.mitsui-chem.co.jp/cdr/f-rakuten.htm), I only can see the Mitsui 24x is available. I don't think 52x is available in Asia market :x. But for sure I'll go back to that dealer for a replacement. Still left 8 of it and I'll return it back for Plextor/TY 48x. You know how much the Plextor/TY 48x cost me? Even more expensive than Mitsui Gold, RM4 (around USD1.10). The cheapest TY I can get here is by Sony 32x. It is RM1.80 (around USD0.50) each. Anyway thanks a lot for your guide.

BuddhaTB wrote:I would suggest getting the Yamaha.


Ok! Since the price difference between the Liteon and Yamaha cdrw drive is not much (the difference is around RM50=USD13.20) I'll take cfitz and your advice. Thanks a lot.
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Postby cfitz on Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:11 pm

lppnet wrote:You know how much the Plextor/TY 48x cost me? Even more expensive than Mitsui Gold, RM4 (around USD1.10).

Wow! :o That is tough. It sure doesn't seem right does it? How can we buy TY made in Japan and shipped across the Pacific for $0.08 per disc on sale, while you pay more than 10 times that amount even though you are on the same side of the ocean as the factory.

Ippnet wrote:Since the price difference between the Liteon and Yamaha cdrw drive is not much (the difference is around RM50=USD13.20) I'll take cfitz and your advice. Thanks a lot.

Or another way of looking at it, it is only a 13-disc difference in price. :( Enjoy your Yamaha when you get it. :)

By the way, one more thing to think about is that, even though the Yamaha rewrites at 24x rather than the 32x you were thinking about waiting for, the Yamaha uses a P-CAV rewriting strategy to yield an average speed of 23.8x. That is significantly faster than the LiteOn's 24x CAV average speed of 18x. And since LiteOn has chosen CAV for its 24x rewriting strategy, there is a reasonable chance when/if they do make a 32x rewriter they will stick with it, meaning that even then the average speed will only be about 24x, essentially the same as the Yamaha 24x rewriter you can buy today.

Finally, we still don't see any 32x CD-RW media available for sale, so no one knows how long we will have to wait for a 32x LiteOn rewriter, or even if they will actually sell one.

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Postby lppnet on Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:30 am

cfitz - Just want to confirm the Mitsui Gold 24x (Made in Taiwan) that I got here really a crap. I already tested it with my new Yamaha F1. The result is better than the one that I burned with Liteon. But C2 errors did occur around the 40 minutes. Just same as my previous result :x . Also able to test some old Mitsui Gold 12x that I got from my friend with my Yamaha F1. This old disc quality also not good. Has few C2 errors at the very end of the disc. Now waiting for the Mitsui Japan explanation on the quality of their cdr that made in Taiwan.
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:35 am

Thanks for the update, and please let us know what, if anything, you hear from Mitsui.

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