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Major frustration trying to read CD-RW disks

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Major frustration trying to read CD-RW disks

Postby Pilgrim on Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:39 am

I'm getting to the point of trying something other than InCD due to its constant refusal to read MRW formatted CD-RW disks. I like the program overall, but it fails miserably at least 80% of the time to do what it is supposed to do.

Here's what I mean.... I format a CD-RW (MRW) on my own personal machine..... then populate it with files and programs I use to diagnose and repair client's machines. I insert one of these disks in a client's CD-RW drive and it won't read it. Now, this occurs even when the client's machine has Nero Burning Rom and InCD (latest version) installed and even after I install EasyWrite Reader. Mind you, many of these machines are fairly new and have new or very recently installed burners. At best the machine groans and finally opens the default junk about needing to install EasyWrite Reader to be able to read the disk. BUT IT ALREADY HAS EASYWRITE READER INSTALLED! Image

This really creates a maddening situation, especially when you are an hour's drive from your home and have to drive back, copy the diagnostic programs, etc., from the CD-RW to your HDD and burn them to a CD-R disk (because formatted CD-RW disks can't be read in a CD-ROM and thus you can't use Nero's "Copy Disk" or even copy the files to a CD-R), and then drive all the way back to the client's home.

There has got to be a better way to be able to use formatted CD-RW disks to store constantly updated data/programs and have another machine read them. Or maybe I'm doing something totally wrong???

Any worthwhile suggestions would be most welcome.
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Postby dburg on Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:46 am

Pilgrim, may you kindly report your recorder model and firmware revision, and well as your playback cd-rom device model and firmware revision, and finally your media brand and model, so we might analyze wheter the recorder failed to record the disc correctly either physically or logically (the MRW structures could be corrupted), or if the player was unable to recognize the MRW track, or something else?
David Burg
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Nero AG - Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad - Germany

fax: +49 (0)7248 928 299 http://www.nero.com
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Postby Pilgrim on Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:02 am

dburg wrote:Pilgrim, may you kindly report your recorder model and firmware revision, and well as your playback cd-rom device model and firmware revision, and finally your media brand and model, so we might analyze wheter the recorder failed to record the disc correctly either physically or logically (the MRW structures could be corrupted), or if the player was unable to recognize the MRW track, or something else?

David,

We have gone through this routine how many times over the past 2 years? Image But just to humor you, here is the information you asked for:

Recorder model: Liteon LTR 52246S
Firmware revision: 6S0F

CD-ROM model: LG CRD-8522B
Firmware version: 2.03

Media Brand/Model Verbatim "DataLifePlus" 16X-24X

This problem isn't dependent upon the media. I've tried at least 5 other brands of varying speeds, etc., and they all fail to be read by my own CD-ROM drive or anyone else's. And as I said, 80% of the time, no other CD-RW drive can read them either, even when the machine has Nero Burning ROM/Nero Express (of various versions), InCD (various versions including the latest) or EasyWrite Reader installed. There are a few that can read my discs, however, but they share no common factors, that I can see, between them.

The same problem exists when discs are burned on my other machine that has totally different drives and using various media. We went through that too, although I doubt you remember all the e-mails sent back and forth with the logs, etc.

What remains constant is the inability to store my data, which needs to be constantly updated, overwritten, added to, etc., on CD-RW's and use those discs on other machines in any drive. And perhaps even more frustrating is the inability to read these discs in a standard CD-ROM, which if I remember correctly, you said was impossible to do anyway for various technical reasons.

Unless there is no other alternative, e.g., different packet writing software software, media, or whatever, I will not accept what appears to be my only recourse and that is to go through at least 1 CDR per day to keep things up to date. That's a waste of money, resources and time.
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:54 am

Have you considered going to a completely different medium to avoid this sort of problem? I've switched to USB memory sticks for transfering data from one machine to another unless there are very large amounts of data involved (in which case I use a CD-RW, but not with packet writing).

The only catch I can think of is that older windows versions may require a driver for a USb stick.

G
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Postby Pilgrim on Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:52 am

G,

Yes, I have a 256 meg "Key Drive" which works great with Win ME, XP, 2K but as you noted, Win 98 needs drivers installed to read the drive.

As for using an UNformatted CD-RW disc, I'm trying to remember correctly, but I think I tried that but they can't be read in a CD ROM either; not even on my own machine. So it seems that to read any CD-RW, if they can be read at all on another machine, a burner has to be installed. It may be hard to believe by those here who are inseparably joined to a CD-RW drive that there are many people who not only don't have a burner, but they don't even know they exist. Image

Jeff
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Postby extreme on Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:13 pm

The problems or errors you are having is the CD-RW disc itself. CD-RW disc tend to have that problem overtime. I have had the same problem with my CD-RW disc, and I no longer use CD-RW disc because of lost of datas. I also use Verbatim, Imation, and TDK, and I noticed that CD-RW disc tend to be unreadable overtime.

Also the newer CD-R recorder or DVD recorder have the Mount Rainer, which is like a drag and drop files like you would on a floppy, and I found that to be of inconvenience. Not all CD and DVD are able to read Mount Rainer CD-RW disc. You write one thing to the disc, and other drive can read it just find, but adding a 2nd or 3rd file to the disc, and third party drives wont be able to access the 1st file.

Stick with CD-R disc instead, and don't finalize the disc so you will have the option of modifying the disc until it's full.
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Postby Han on Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:06 pm

Pilgrim wrote:As for using an UNformatted CD-RW disc, I'm trying to remember correctly, but I think I tried that but they can't be read in a CD ROM either; not even on my own machine. So it seems that to read any CD-RW, if they can be read at all on another machine, a burner has to be installed.

I haven't noticed that. Well, maybe on some really ancient CD-ROM drives (1x, 2x, 4x and 8x speed). When you burn an empty non-formatted CD-RW disc as it was a CD-R, you should be able to read it in any CD/DVD drive that supports reading CD-RW discs, without any special software installed!
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:30 pm

I just checked that too. I have an ancient Teac CD-58E (8x) that doesn't recognize CD-RWs. Frankly, I think if it doesn't read RW's burned as a normal disc (like Han mentioned) it won't read those done with packet writing either- it's the physical medium, not the logical structure that restricts access.

Other than that, I've had good results with quality CD-RWs (Verbatim) with no incompatibilies on DVD-ROM or (newer) CD-ROM drives.

G
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Postby Pilgrim on Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:19 pm

Thanks guys,

I too have had really good results using Verbatim CD-RW discs. In fact, I cannot think of any that have given me problems.

The CD-RW drive which couldn't read my MRW formatted Verbatim CD-RW disc w/InCD 4.3.11.1 and InCD WriteReader 4.3.11.1 installed is a LG GCE 8525B. The woman said she just bought it about a year ago. I used Nero's "InfoTool" and it is MRW capable. Go figure!

It's true most of the problems I've experienced has been with older drives too.

Jeff
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Postby Spazmogen on Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:32 am

I'd suggest not using packet writing.

Just do a full erase and then write the disc normally and make sure to close the session.

See if that works it should. But you'll need to keep folder on your system with all of the lastest updates that need to deploy. Then you'll have to erase the RW disc and write it again.

Personally, I gave up on packet writing about 2 years ago.

Are you using the 16x-24x RW discs or the 4x-12x RW Verbatims?

Perhaps the drives can't handle the newer 16x-24x discs.

BTW: I just bought 10 Infodisc 24x 700mb discs from Blankmedia.catonight. I'll post my results later on. I'll probably be sorry I bought them.

I also bought 2 of the Mitsubishi 32x 700mb CD-RW discs from a chap in England.
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:37 am

hi Pilgrim.

the others said most of what i was going to:

if the drive can't read CD-RW discs mastered like for example with Nero, not packet-written with InCD, then it's either the drive or the media.

if you can't read the disc in the burner you used to burn it with, it's bad media.

i've had LG CD-ROM drives and they had no problem reading packet-written CDRWs at all, worked flawlessly for me.
i must note however that they were models than that you mention though. and i used 4x and 10x CDRWs. could be that Spaz is right and the drive can't handle faster RWs, though i find that very unlikely. you can try contacting LG tech support, they've been helpful to me.
i think your client's LG drive might be faulty.
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Postby Pilgrim on Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:44 am

Thanks for all the input.

Spazmogen: I'm not about to give up on packet-written CD-RW media. I find it far too valuable and cost/time-effective over the the alternatives. I have tried using unformatted CD-RW discs and my CD-ROM won't read those either. And those same discs can't be read on my other XP machine which has totally different hardware, including the drives. Go figure.

dodecahedron: Guess all I can do is repeat what I replied to Spaz . . . and add that I've tried at least 4 different brands of media and get the exact same results; my CD-ROM simply will not read ANY shape or form of CD-RW disc . . . and neither will my other machines CD-ROM, nor will ANY other CD-ROM in any other machine I've tried. Evidently you have a very unique LG drive or else everyone around here has defective drives. Image What is strange about you being able to read CD-RW discs in your CD-ROM drive is that David Burg told me over a year ago when I was complaining about this very thing is that CD-ROM drives aren't meant to read CD-RW discs, formatted or unformatted. At that point I simply accepted what he said.

So, actually, there are "2" issues here.. 1) Inability of CD-ROM drives to read ANY CD-RW (media type or formatted/unformatted) and 2) Inability of other CD-RW drives to read MRW formatted CD-RW discs even when all of the latest versions of Nero's software is installed. As to "1" again I'm simply accepting what Mr. Burg stated, i.e., CD-ROM drives cannot read CD-RW discs. As to "2" I doubt it is media brand or speed as I have tried several brands and speed ranges from 4x to 32X and gotten the same unpredictable results depending upon the drive. On my own personal machines, I have not had any problem whatsoever reading or writing to a disc of any brand or speed. If I never had to work on anyone else's machine, I wouldn't have a problem. Image

Oh yeh, almost forgot.... I installed the new "InCD WriteReader 4.3.11.1" on that E-Machine with the LG GCD 8525B CD-RW drive and it still wouldn't read my discs. After leaving this person's office I went to their home to work on another PC, installed InCD WriteReader and it read my discs perfectly.

Jeff
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Postby Han on Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:45 pm

Pilgrim wrote:What is strange about you being able to read CD-RW discs in your CD-ROM drive is that David Burg told me over a year ago when I was complaining about this very thing is that CD-ROM drives aren't meant to read CD-RW discs, formatted or unformatted. At that point I simply accepted what he said.

Huh, this is really new to me. :o :-? I've been reading track-at-once and disc-at-once CD-RW's flawlessly in plain CD and DVD-ROM drives (TEAC, Toshiba, Pioneer)...

Btw, I'm recording right now some data to Verbatim CD-RW for tomorrow's usage in Pioneer DVD-ROM drive.
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Postby dburg on Thu May 26, 2005 4:02 pm

In which thread did I say something that strong again? I was quite wrong then, sorry!

Yes, initially CD-ROM drive were not designed to read back -R and -RW media. But later devices did it. It even got a logo: 'MultiRead'

See http://www.osta.org/specs/multiread.htm from osta, the organization who organized this.

Yes, MRW compatibility is yet another issue. The disk contains remapping information and a new addressing, and it take quite an important effort to get all hardware and software engineers to agree on the way to interprete the specification defining this innovative feature. Hence the companies behind MRW has initiated so-called "Round Robin Test"s to discover and resolve incompatibilities.
David Burg
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fax: +49 (0)7248 928 299 http://www.nero.com
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