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Media Compatibility With CD-RW Drives - Which Media Is Best?

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:44 am

That spindle has "Taiyo Yuden" written all over it.

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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:44 am

if/when anybody gets some of them, please check that they are indeed TY!
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
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Postby Action Jackson on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:46 am

TY? Well it does say "King of Quality" on it! 8)

I don't recognize that type of casing, and somehow, I suspect it might be Ritek stuff.

Only one way to know for sure.......
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:46 am

Action Jackson wrote:I don't recognize that type of casing, and somehow, I suspect it might be Ritek stuff.


I'm essentially 100% certain it is TY. But let's move this discussion to a more appropriate thread and save this thread for when we have actual results. There is a thread already dedicated to speculation about the new Plextor media, and in that thread you can see a photo of the new TY case:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... ght=#35195

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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:48 am

I don't mind if you veer off topic a bit. Any CD-R talk is better than no CD-R talk. :)

BTW, test results for the LG GCE-8240B are coming soon...very soon!
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:48 am

TheWizard wrote:BTW, test results for the LG GCE-8240B are coming soon...very soon!

Looking forward to it. :)

By the way, here is another result for the "no surprises here" file:

Code: Select all
Yamaha CRW3200EZ  1.0d

........................Fuji/TY 80min 48X.......................24X


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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:53 am

Ahh, LG GCE-8240B results are up!

Surpisingly enough, it wrote better to the Unbranded Ritek and CompUSA Hitachi Maxell media than my GCE-8320B did!
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Largely irrelevant, but still...

Postby BodHack on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:55 am

Hi all! I'm a long time lurker at these boards and just thought I would register to let you know of my media experiences...which are rather non-eventful, to be honest ;)

I've got a Ricoh MP7040A that I flashed with the MP7060A firmware...so my writer is a scary
6 write, 4 rewrite and 24 read, all at PIO 3...!

anyway, the media results:

Ricoh MP7060A, firmware 1.80

Kodak Gold Ultima 74min/KDK 12x
Memorex 80min/RTK 16x
Memorex Black 16x/??? 16x
Sony CDQ74N1 16x/SN 16x
Verbatim DataLifePlus 24x/MC 24x
-all work fine at 6x, which is my maximum speed

Kodak CDRW/KDK? 4x
Generic CDRW/PD 4x
Both types of CDRW also work at 4x, though Kodak never produces errors in Nero - where Prodisc ones sometimes give "medium speed error" or similar, but still work & all data is readable.
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:56 am

Awesome, our first Ricoh results! Doesn't matter if it's an old drive, we like all the results we get! Thanks :)
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:56 am

Code: Select all
Lite-On LTR-48125W
Firmware: VS08

........................Imation/CMC 80min 32X...................48X
........................Maxell/RTK 80min 40X....................48X
........................Mitsui Silver/MS 80min 24X..............40X
........................Verbatim Super Azo/MC 80min 48X.........32X


The Imation/CMC entry is a duplicate of one someone else already reported, but that person only reported good burns up to 40x, while my drive burned error-free at 48x.

This drive seems to prefer phthalocyanine dye - it burned beyond the rated speeds on all the phthalocyanine discs. Conversely, it really doesn't do well with Verbatim's Super AZO dye. I'm not the only one to report performance below the rated speed when burning Super AZO discs.

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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:56 am

Perhaps the firmware update has something to do with the Imation 32X discs burning at higher speeds successfully? I'm not sure, it's just a guess.

I know what you mean about the drive preferring pthalocyanine, note the Sony cyanine AZO discs did not perform well either.
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Postby Jovo on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:56 am

These figures may be of interest to those intending to overclock their Lite-on 40125W to a 48125S or the 48126S to the 52246S.

Please note that my earlier posting with the Memorex figures was incorrect. All media that was writable at 48x with the 48126S was capable of 52x with the latest 6S02 firmware (the actual burn speed varied but was alwys close to 52x)

Disk brand: Possible Manufacturer and claimed speed: Real speed VS08: Real speed VS06: Real speed LTR 48126S o'clocked as LTR 52246S 6S02
TDK Gold: CMC, Imation All speed: 48x: 48x: 52x:
TDK Coloured: Ritek All speed: 46x: 32x: 52x:
Sony: LeadData 32x: 31x: 31x: 31x:
Datastream: Prodisc 40x: 47x: 40x: 40x:
Kodak: Kodak 16x: 31x: 31x: 31x:
Taiyo Yuden: Taiyo Yuden 24x: 39x: 39x: 39x:
Taiyo Yuden: Taiyo Yuden 32x: 39x: 39x: 39x:
Imation: CMC, Imation 24x: 48x: NA: 52x:
Laser: Postech, Diamond 40x: 31x: 31x: 31x:
Unbranded: Acer media ?: 48x: 48x: 52x:
Mitsui: Gold: Mitsui 12x: 40x: NA: 40x:
BASF Emtec: Kingpro 32x: 46x: 24x: 46x:
Philips: Ritek All speed: 47x: 39x: 47x:
TDK: Ritek 12x: 24x: NA: 24x:
Last edited by Jovo on Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:58 am

There have been reports that overclocking doesn't make burns any faster, and in some instances, the time takes longer after being overclocked. According to Jovo's speed test results, it confirms (at least from Lite-On's software point of view) that the burn speed for most of the CD's won't increase or will even decrease.
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Correction...

Postby BodHack on Thu Jan 01, 1970 5:59 am

I just put one of the Generic CDRWs into my CDR and checked the ATIP with cdrid and nero and they come up as being made by "InfoDisc Technology Co Ltd"

I could've sworn they used to come up as being made by ProDisc.

again, sorry for the inaccurate data!
:oops:

table should read

Ricoh MP7060A fw 1.80
Generic CDRW/ID 4x.....4x

(where "ID" is a new code for "InfoDisc Tech Co Ltd" or whatever you prefer)
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:01 am

No worries, it's updated now. :)

I also added our lone result for an Asus drive; we need more Asus results!
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:01 am

TheWizard wrote:I also added our lone result for an Asus drive; we need more Asus results!


And I want to see some Yamaha CRW-F1 results! Surely someone out there owns an F1...

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Postby alchip80 on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:02 am

TheWizard

Finally got around to do some recordings.

Plextor PX-W4824TA.......Fuji/TY 80min 24x.........................48X
Firmware 1.01............Fuji/TY 80min 40x.........................48X
.........................Memorex/PD 80min 16x......................32X
.........................Memorex/PD 80min 16x..prc off.............40X
.........................Maxell/RTK 74min 40X......................32X
.........................Maxell/RTK 74min 40X..prc off.............48X
.........................Sony/SN 74min 16X.........................24X
.........................Sony/SN 74min 16X.......prc off...........32X
.........................That's CDR/TY 48X.........................48X
.........................Verbatim DataLifePlus/MC 80min 16X...........16X
.........................Verbatim DataLifePlus/MC 80min 16X....prc off.....40X


I also included the burns with PowerRec off, as this can be used for brands not listed fully listed in the firmware. You can see that the Maxell 40X Gold (colored)CD's only burned at 32X with PowerRec on. It appears that this may have been a 24X or 32X marked-up CD. All CD's listed are spindle packs, except That's CDR. All CD's burned with zero errors.
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:03 am

Ah, results for the new Plextor! Thanks alchip80!
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Postby Tolyngee on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:03 am

cfitz wrote:
TheWizard wrote:I also added our lone result for an Asus drive; we need more Asus results!


And I want to see some Yamaha CRW-F1 results! Surely someone out there owns an F1...

cfitz


I own an F1, and have a lot of different types of media, but what I find most interesting is this:

When I use 8x-rated media, I have less errors in my burns if I force the F1 to burn the discs at 16x speed!
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:03 am

Tolyngee wrote:I own an F1, and have a lot of different types of media, but what I find most interesting is this:

When I use 8x-rated media, I have less errors in my burns if I force the F1 to burn the discs at 16x speed!

Hi Tolyngee. If you have some time to gather and present some formal results with your F1 burning on various media, I and others would appreciate it.

As for the better quality at 16x, that isn't completely unexpected. I have also seen such phenomena. I think the reason is that with the race to higher recording speeds, both drive and media manufacturers are tuning their products to best support high speed burning. A possible consequence is that they don't do quite as well at lower speeds. I can't offer the exact mechanism by which this may occur, but I think it is a reasonable possibility. I do know that many newer CD-RW drives can't burn at lower (1x, 2x, etc.) speeds at all - it just isn't supported.

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Postby Tolyngee on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:03 am

cfitz wrote:
Tolyngee wrote:I own an F1, and have a lot of different types of media, but what I find most interesting is this:

When I use 8x-rated media, I have less errors in my burns if I force the F1 to burn the discs at 16x speed!

Hi Tolyngee. If you have some time to gather and present some formal results with your F1 burning on various media, I and others would appreciate it.

As for the better quality at 16x, that isn't completely unexpected. I have also seen such phenomena. I think the reason is that with the race to higher recording speeds, both drive and media manufacturers are tuning their products to best support high speed burning. A possible consequence is that they don't do quite as well at lower speeds. I can't offer the exact mechanism by which this may occur, but I think it is a reasonable possibility. I do know that many newer CD-RW drives can't burn at lower (1x, 2x, etc.) speeds at all - it just isn't supported.

cfitz


Cfitz, not trying to be argumentative here, please don't take it as such, but from the original thread:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5680

3. To set the standard, please only post the Maximum Successful Burn Speed Without Errors, that means any percentage of errors over 0% is unacceptable. This is to negate any borderline calls; the aim of this list is to definitively answer which media works best with which drives.


So, to be clearer with my original comment, you really can't accurately go by #3 with the F1, as I still have the original firmware in mine (I have read the updates (1.0d?) have had problems for some people, and if it ain't broken, I'm not fixin' it!), which only has the max burn speed option of 16x, then it is just 44x with it deciding how to burn it...

I may soon flash it though, just to see if 24x/32x gives the same result as 16x has: a better-quality burn than the 8x the media is meant to be burned at.

I can't help but wonder if that is why Yamaha put the added selectable burn speeds into the new firmwares: not [just] because of rants from owners, but because of 8x not being tuned as well as higher speeds, thus the user (in some ways) being forced to burn their cds with less quality than the burner is capable of...
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Postby PennyArcade on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:03 am

no lite on 40125w with latest firmware on the chart?

I've been having incredibly bad luck with

Durabrand cmc's and Mitsumi Postechs :evil:
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:04 am

Tolyngee wrote:Cfitz, not trying to be argumentative here, please don't take it as such

Not to worry - I didn't take it as such 8)

Tolyngee wrote:So, to be clearer with my original comment, you really can't accurately go by #3 with the F1 ... which only has the max burn speed option of 16x, then it is just 44x with it deciding how to burn it...

I think it is fair to post results for the F1. First, remember that TheWizard has provided space for firmware version, so we can easily accommodate different results from the same drive model using different firmware. Second, the results included in this thread are for the combination of drive and media, not just for the media alone. Thus, you need not worry about giving a particular brand of media a bad name just because it does poorly in one drive. Third, and most importantly, it is perfectly acceptable, and in fact desirable, to post actual achievable results here and not worry about what might have been had another firmware been available.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, you are concerned about the lack of manually selectable speeds between 16x and the drive-selected max speed. I believe you might feel it is unfair to report that the F1 is only capable of burning a particular disc at 16x without errors when you feel it could go as high as 20x, 24x, 32x or even 40x without errors, if only the firmware allowed you to choose manual speeds greater than 16x. I, on the other hand, think this is perfectly fair. If the F1 can't burn a particular disc without errors at the F1's chosen max speed and you are forced to drop all the way down to the highest manually selectable speed of 16x to get an error-free burn, then simply report the result as 16x. In such a case, 16x is the maximum speed at which the F1 can burn that disc without errors. Maybe the drive hardware could do better, but if the firmware won't allow you to utilize that hardware, then it doesn't matter.

In summary, here is how I would suggest testing and reporting the F1:

1. Burn a disc at the maximum speed as automatically selected by the F1 (keeping track of the actual burn time so that you can correctly ascertain the real burn speed used).
2. If that disc is error-free*, report the actual burn speed as the final result.
3. If the first disc is not error-free, switch to the highest manually selectable speed, and burn a disc at that speed. If you are using the original firmware, that highest manual speed will have to be 16x. If you have the newer firmware, you can start backing down at 32x.
4. If the second disc is error-free, report that burn speed (in your case 16x) as the final result.
5. If the second disc also has errors, repeat steps 3-5 with the next lower speed setting.
6. Continue until you get either an error-free disc or discover that an error-free disc is not possible at any speed, and then report appropriately.
7. When you do report results, be sure to include your firmware version, just as TheWizard originally requested.

* Since the F1 does not report C2 errors, you will have to test the burn quality in a different drive that does correctly report C2 errors.

Maybe there are a lot of brands of discs out there that don't burn error-free at the speed chosen by the F1 but would burn just fine at a slightly slower speed if such a speed could be manually selected. But it can't, so they will just have to be reported as 16x. If Yamaha finds that to be embarrassing, perhaps they will release yet another revision of firmware that will include better automatic speed selection, even more user selectable speeds, and that will allow user selectable speeds to be used in conjunction with their OWSC feature.

Tolyngee wrote:I can't help but wonder if that is why Yamaha put the added selectable burn speeds into the new firmwares: not [just] because of rants from owners, but because of 8x not being tuned as well as higher speeds, thus the user (in some ways) being forced to burn their cds with less quality than the burner is capable of...


Which goes right back to my point: it doesn't matter if the burner could do better as long as Yamaha doesn't allow it to do better. We can only report on what it can actually do as currently configured, not on what might be possible if Yamaha included more flexible firmware.

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Postby Tolyngee on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:04 am

Okay, well, here goes:

Though not what you asked for (you'd have to give me a little time to run test properly on all of my different media...), this is what I have:

TY 48x(?) rated... (I really don't want to waste 'em on any tests, and I have yet to use any of them anyway, but they BETTER work at full speed, or you'll certainly hear about my utter disappointment!!! :evil: :o )

(though your tests don't necessarily end in coasters, but just some discs with C2 errors come to think of it...)

GAT 12x (WTF makes these POS cd-rs???) I have 500-600 of 'em, so I hope they aren't as utterly crappy as they appear! :(

unkn 8x (?) - bought some time ago, would only burn at MS (manually-selected) 16x: 44x made unreadable discs (if forced to burn at 44x), and 8x (what the Yamaha wanted to force itself to, so I assume they are 8x discs) resulted in C2 errors around the 60-70 min mark... big spike of 'em too...

another unkn 8x - ditto to above, but quite different cd-r... quite certain a different manuf, as the dye and all was very different...

Ricoh 8x - ditto (of interest that all 8x media burned at 8x had a significant spike of C2 errors at around 60-70 min mark! No errors at all, then BOOM! a spike! No coasters though...)

CompUSA 8x - completely unkn what tests would show

CompUSA ??x - dunno

Imation ??x - dunno

TDK 32x - dunno (I would be interested to see what the Yamaha wants to do with these, and if the burn is error-free...)


Of the untested above, I have about 2,000+ of assorted cd-rs yet to burn someday, so I will know at some point! (And yes, I could fill all of those cd-rs right now, if I just wanted to sit here and just burn and burn until the burners could burn no more!)


SO, would you like me to test all of my lowly low-rated 8x/12x media to see just how much the Yamaha chokes on them at any setting but 16x?


FWIW, the three 8x-rated types that I have used all ALMOST survived 44x burns! Around 65-70 min it became unreadable. Which leads me to believe they may just survive 24x, perhaps even 32x burns with no problem...

So, really, maybe blame Yamaha for being stuck at 16x presently...

I still think it is ridiculous that the 'best' burner on the planet CANNOT test for C2 errors!!! :o :evil: :roll:
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Postby cfitz on Thu Jan 01, 1970 6:04 am

Tolyngee wrote:Of the untested above, I have about 2,000+ of assorted cd-rs yet to burn someday, so I will know at some point!

Yow! 1.3 Terabytes?!? :o I'm not sure I even want to know but, I'll bite: what is it all, and where are you storing it now?

Tolyngee wrote:SO, would you like me to test all of my lowly low-rated 8x/12x media to see just how much the Yamaha chokes on them at any setting but 16x?

I didn't know that so many of your media were rated at such low speeds. The 8x/12x media results probably aren't very interesting since few people are likely to use such media anymore, but of course they would still be welcome if you felt like publishing them. However, I think people would like to see the 48x TY and 32x TDK results.

Tolyngee wrote:I still think it is ridiculous that the 'best' burner on the planet CANNOT test for C2 errors!!! :o :evil: :roll:

Perhaps Yamaha's thinking is that their burners would never create discs with C2 errors on them, so there is no need to be able to report on C2 errors... :wink:

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