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More TY screwups (CD-Rs this time!)

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More TY screwups (CD-Rs this time!)

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:21 pm

I just got this forwarded to me:

Hi ***********
I am going to send you some Taiyo Yuden silver/blue cdr's with the mail envelope for your information and testing, if you like..

When the customer returned these I was really hoping that they were not our product, and had (our sister company) run the discs on their disc identifier software upstairs. I have never seen the foil flake off cd's like this and did not know that the Taiyo Yudens would do this.
The date of purchase was a year ago and they have been kept in the sound room of the church, so no drastic temperature changes.
Do I want to sell a product that will do this in a year?
-********


I'll take pictures and post them as soon as the discs arrive.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:34 pm

I finally got the discs, here are some pics:
Attachments
2006_1031(006).JPG
2006_1031(006).JPG (202.47 KiB) Viewed 3403 times
2006_1031(008).JPG
2006_1031(008).JPG (160.59 KiB) Viewed 3396 times
2006_1031(009).JPG
2006_1031(009).JPG (166.78 KiB) Viewed 3387 times
2006_1031(010).JPG
2006_1031(010).JPG (170.5 KiB) Viewed 3377 times
2006_1031(011).JPG
2006_1031(011).JPG (146.13 KiB) Viewed 3367 times
2006_1031(012).JPG
2006_1031(012).JPG (147.6 KiB) Viewed 3350 times
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:36 pm

more pics
Attachments
2006_1031(013).JPG
2006_1031(013).JPG (189.13 KiB) Viewed 3357 times
2006_1031(014).JPG
2006_1031(014).JPG (185.98 KiB) Viewed 3355 times
2006_1031(015).JPG
2006_1031(015).JPG (162.39 KiB) Viewed 3336 times
2006_1031(016).JPG
2006_1031(016).JPG (161.09 KiB) Viewed 3330 times
2006_1031(017).JPG
2006_1031(017).JPG (166.39 KiB) Viewed 3318 times
2006_1031(018).JPG
2006_1031(018).JPG (173.77 KiB) Viewed 3320 times
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:37 pm

and some more pictures
Attachments
2006_1031(019).JPG
2006_1031(019).JPG (165.57 KiB) Viewed 3311 times
2006_1031(020).JPG
2006_1031(020).JPG (176.07 KiB) Viewed 3309 times
2006_1031(021).JPG
2006_1031(021).JPG (194.79 KiB) Viewed 3307 times
2006_1031(022).JPG
2006_1031(022).JPG (176.22 KiB) Viewed 3304 times
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:43 pm

genuine TY?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:54 pm

yeah, 100% genuine. The only question is was it maybe Value Line? I don't know of a way to tell the value line CD-Rs apart from A Grade :(
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Postby Grain on Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:18 pm

They look just like the ones that have been upside down on my coffee table for six months :lol:
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Postby Scour on Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:27 pm

Thta´s the reason why I hate Blanks :(

I had similar probs ith Blank Noname-CD-R´s some years ago
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:03 pm

Scour wrote:Thta´s the reason why I hate Blanks :(

I had similar probs ith Blank Noname-CD-R´s some years ago


Yeah, but these are TY's premium line of CD-Rs... they cost more then most CD-Rs, and you're supposed to get what you pay for! :-?
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Postby Scour on Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:14 pm

Looks like Blank always suck :-?

That´s the reaon why i only bought TY labeled-versions from Plextor and Verbatim
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:29 am

"...kept in the sound room of the church" is vague. We don't know what the discs were stored in, what was next to them, how the discs were handled, etc. For example, according to the pictures, a couple of the disc hubs are cracked. That's flat-out mishandling by the user; I doubt the hubs crack on their own accord. :) I am tempted to attribute the flaking of the top layer to mishandling as well, but I don't know the entire story.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:06 am

TheWizard wrote:"...kept in the sound room of the church" is vague. We don't know what the discs were stored in, what was next to them, how the discs were handled, etc. For example, according to the pictures, a couple of the disc hubs are cracked. That's flat-out mishandling by the user; I doubt the hubs crack on their own accord. :) I am tempted to attribute the flaking of the top layer to mishandling as well, but I don't know the entire story.


Yeah, the hubs were cracked on two discs. Oddly enough they were 2 of the 3 slightly different looking TY CD-Rs of the bunch... they had a different serial number and stamper code too (but still 100% legit, just from a different batch, and likely different equipment as well). A search of the net will find other complaints from this batch (stamper code "80 PG1229").

To be honest, I don't know how the discs' hubs got cracked. I suspect it happend during shipping to me. What I do know is that every disc had "pock marks" which are not really easy to make by mis-handling a disc. I suspect that much of the flaked off surface is from attempting to play the discs with these pock marks, causing laquer to peel a bit, and then someone probably scratched at it wondering what it was.

I can deffinately confirm that the discs are deffinately defective though... hub damage completely aside.
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Postby evilboy on Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:53 am

Using unsuitable cases can also cause the hubs to crack. Especially because Taiyo Yuden media has smaller hub holes than other media (CMC, MCC, ...) from my experience.

I hope this is an isolated incident, as I have most of my backups stored on TY CD-R (but labeled though, so they might be less sensitive). I guess that this problem has been caused by bad handling/storage.

If there is no code, a short code, two codes, two short codes, or something different from the usual look stamped into the frosted hub they must be value line. If there's only one long serial as usual, it can be premium or value line.

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:26 am

evilboy wrote:Using unsuitable cases can also cause the hubs to crack. Especially because Taiyo Yuden media has smaller hub holes than other media (CMC, MCC, ...) from my experience.


They were stored in their original spindle in the sound room of a church. They keep a lot of equipment in there, and the temperature is supposed to be relatively stable. Like I said, I think the hub damage might have occured when they were shipped to me.

evilboy wrote:I hope this is an isolated incident, as I have most of my backups stored on TY CD-R (but labeled though, so they might be less sensitive). I guess that this problem has been caused by bad handling/storage.


Yeah.... I keep saying that every time I see serious Taiyo Yuden CD-R flaws. I don't really care that TY's DVDRs are falling apart, there are lot's of alternatives I can use. But there isn't any real alternative for TY's CD-Rs, so I'm starting to get rather worried.

evilboy wrote:If there is no code, a short code, two codes, two short codes, or something different from the usual look stamped into the frosted hub they must be value line. If there's only one long serial as usual, it can be premium or value line.


The whole short code / 2 short code thing is only true on the Value Line DVD±Rs, it doesn't apply for CD-Rs. The company that sold them double checked their records, and as long as the CD-Rs returned are the same ones sold by them (which they are 99% sure of), they are Taiyo Yuden Premium line CD-Rs, and not the Value Line CD-Rs.
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Postby evilboy on Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:00 pm

MCC Azo media is rare. :(
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The only next best thing would be CMC.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:33 pm

evilboy wrote:MCC Azo media is rare. :(
Mitsui collapsed.
Ritek is politically incorrect.
The only next best thing would be CMC.


MCC Azo is easy to get for me, but it's made by MBIL now and hasn't been scoring well on longevity tests. Mitsui, even Mitsui gold is getting worse and worse.... Ritek isn't really that consistant, and deffinately not even as good as crappy TY CD-Rs.

CMC, made really well MIGHT be a choice... but getting it consistantly and at a good price might be hard. Perhaps a special deal directly made with one of their factories?
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Postby TheWizard on Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:50 am

I would agree that Ritek quality is not consistent and CMC discs are not as bad as many people say they are. They got a bad reputation long ago, but they have come around.
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Postby evilboy on Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:11 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:CMC, made really well MIGHT be a choice... but getting it consistantly and at a good price might be hard. Perhaps a special deal directly made with one of their factories?

Well, I'll better not think about supermarket CMCs.
I heard that the HP CMC are supposed to be good. And infact they seem to be more consistant than some supermarket CMC, but they suffer from reflectivity problems.
I haven't tried the CMC/Verbatim Extra Protection CD-R yet. But they are good from what I've heard, and not expensive either.

There are also some stores still having MBI-made MCCs in stock, but they seem to become very rare anyway. CMC-made MCC CD-R is rare. :cry:
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:42 pm

hi there kg_evilboy, welcome to CDRLabs.
nice to see you here too. :D
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Postby Gabe on Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:57 pm

I had some Blanks when I bought my first CD-Rs or boughta "trial"-batch with media from different manufacturers. But I never been a fan of Blank-media because it´s very sensitive.

I looked yesterday for some Verbatim CD-R-Media, only found Made in India, looks like MIT is very hard to get, maybe impossible
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Postby evilboy on Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:10 pm

If you can still find 48x DataLifePlus CD-R, those are more often MIC (no MIT).
I saw a few 52x DataLifePlus CD-R (25 packs) which were MIC, but that's extremely rare. They came in a CMC style cakebox. I only have 2x25 of them :(

Also some of the 43437 (Hub Printable) may be MIC, but with those the recent batches are MII too.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:45 pm

I just got this e-mailed to me:

Further to our phone call regarding the Taiyo Yuden silver/blue 80 min cdr's that were returned by a customer because of peeling and sent for your evaluation.

The customer has no more product, used or unused.

In our phone conversation today, she added that:
- pin point holes first appear and then the peeling starts
- the CD's are often used on continuous play, when used for other purposes have had the peeling issue well.

She is trying the Mam-a CDR'S to see how they work in their equipment

Thank you for your follow-up with this.


I've also confirmed that this is Taiyo Yuden Premium Line CD-Rs, and NOT the Value Line.

I'm going to push to have Verbatim DLP used instead of MAM-A though... :o
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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