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MPO disks under Maxell label - who they ?

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MPO disks under Maxell label - who they ?

Postby Phil K on Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:48 am

Are MPO any good ? I got a box of 50 of them labelled Maxell at Asda (you yanks will know Walmart, they're a part of Walmart) on Sunday. Anyone know anything of them ?
Also Mos Beer (or such like) an Indian make. Very wary of them, seem OK so far, but thoroughly disgusted a name like TDK dont use the best. :evil:
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Postby Bhairav on Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:39 am

Moser Baer= good in my book. Other guys on this forum have had a good experience with them as well.

TDK not using the best? True, they're also using CMC, which are HORRIBLE! Atleast the Moser Baer discs are decent!
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Postby Phil K on Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:57 am

I stand corrected on Moser Baer.

Still like to know who MPO might be though, and anyones opinion of them.

(and yes - CMC are appalling. I stopped buying Verbatim for a while because they were using CMC. The last 2 lots of Verbatims (25 packs from a comp fair) I bought though were Mitsui. No complaints with THEM !) :wink:
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Postby Halc on Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:36 am

TDK's own European factories (TDK Corp ATIP) does not produce as compatible and good quality media (if you trust KProbe tests) as Moser Baer India does.

MBI discs burn consistently well in Plextor, LG and LiteOn drives, whereas even TY fail on some of these. TDK's on manufacturing is not even as good as TY.

I'm really positively surprised by MBI on all the burners I've tested it on.

I have no idead about batch-to-batch quality variance nor longevity, but otherwise I recommend this media for LG, Plextor and LiteOn newer models.

regards,
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Postby CDRecorder on Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:22 pm

I would just like to say that not all CMC discs are poor quality. I have some that are really good (and some that are not quite as good).
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:42 am

CDRecorder wrote:I would just like to say that not all CMC discs are poor quality. I have some that are really good (and some that are not quite as good).


I agree, and actually, all CMC discs (both branded and unbranded) I have used have never given me problems. I'm sure bad batches of CMC discs exist, but I still like their media overall.

Phil K wrote:Still like to know who MPO might be though, and anyones opinion of them.


MPO stands for Moulage Plastique de L'Ouest. Some of their discs are found under the brand Traxdata, and unfortunately, results with several burners were not too good. They failed to burn at their rated speed on LG, Ricoh, and Sony burners. Take a look at the Media Compatibility List to find the results.
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Postby CDRecorder on Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:06 am

TheWizard wrote:I agree, and actually, all CMC discs (both branded and unbranded) I have used have never given me problems. I'm sure bad batches of CMC discs exist, but I still like their media overall.


I agree; although the quality of my worst CMC discs certainly isn't high, it isn't too bad, either.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:31 am

Phil K wrote:I stand corrected on Moser Baer.

Still like to know who MPO might be though, and anyones opinion of them.

(and yes - CMC are appalling. I stopped buying Verbatim for a while because they were using CMC. The last 2 lots of Verbatims (25 packs from a comp fair) I bought though were Mitsui. No complaints with THEM !) :wink:


Verbatim has never worked with Mitsui.... However there is some counterfeit Mitsui going around. I got some from some Memorex discs once. Also, remember that some fairs sometimes have less then reputable sellers, who may be trying to get rid of illegal counterfeit media. I've run accross this a couple of times as well :evil:
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Postby cfitz on Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:05 am

True, although I suspect Phil K simply confused Mitsubishi Chemicals with Mitsui. :wink:

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Postby Phil K on Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:52 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:
Phil K wrote:I stand corrected on Moser Baer.

Still like to know who MPO might be though, and anyones opinion of them.

(and yes - CMC are appalling. I stopped buying Verbatim for a while because they were using CMC. The last 2 lots of Verbatims (25 packs from a comp fair) I bought though were Mitsui. No complaints with THEM !) :wink:


Verbatim has never worked with Mitsui.... However there is some counterfeit Mitsui going around. I got some from some Memorex discs once. Also, remember that some fairs sometimes have less then reputable sellers, who may be trying to get rid of illegal counterfeit media. I've run accross this a couple of times as well :evil:

Really ? Odd then that CDR Identifier AND CD Mate and the K Probe thing all said they were Mitsui. I think I'm quite happy to go by what CD Identifier is telling me, thank you.
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Postby Phil K on Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:56 am

cfitz wrote:True, although I suspect Phil K simply confused Mitsubishi Chemicals with Mitsui. :wink:

cfitz

You suspect wrong. I am looking at one of the Verbatim silver "azo" ones right now, and matching it up with a branded Mitsui. It has the same frosted look on the top, and registers as Mitsui. Just because you personally have not come across it, does not mean it cannot exist. It DOES.
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Postby Bhairav on Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:56 am

Ahh.. probably European guys get something different from the Americans, and we Asians get something else altogether, such as NOT getting TY anywhere for love or money.
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Postby cfitz on Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:01 am

My, my Phil. Got up on the wrong side of bed this morning? Feeling a bit testy? :-? I just suggested you might have made the understandable mistake of confusing Mitsubishi Chemicals with Mitsui. I don't recall saying that if I haven't personally seen something, it cannot be. :roll: Of course, in your case I may be willing to make an exception.

We all know that brands are constantly switching actual manufacturers. And Mitsui has made discs for other brands in the past, including Yamaha, Philips, Sony and Teac. In addition, while Verbatim makes it own CD-Rs it also sells CD-Rs made by CMC. So it wouldn't be out of the question for Verbatim to contract with Mitsui for CD-Rs as well.

But you lost me when you claimed that you are holding an AZO disc made by Mitsui. Mitsui uses its own patented phythalocyanine dye. Mitsubishi Chemicals uses its own patented AZO (now Super AZO) dye. The two aren't anything alike.

As for your "frosted look on the top" evidence, it doesn't mean much. Genuine Verbatim (Mitsubishi Chemicals, that is) discs are coated with a pebbly finish lacquer that very much resembles the finish on genuine Mitsui discs.

The fact that you bought these at a computer fair doesn't help your cause either. As dolphinius_rex stated, one is more likely to get goods of questionable origin at a computer fair.

So, I guess I will make an exception in this case and not believe your story. You're just a tad too defensive in presenting your case. It makes we wonder why. I'll believe that Mitsui makes CD-Rs for Verbatim when I hear it from a source that doesn't have such a high personal stake in justifying who makes the CD-Rs he buys. 8) :)

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Postby Phil K on Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:04 am

cfitz wrote:My, my Phil. Got up on the wrong side of bed this morning? Feeling a bit testy? :-? I just suggested you might have made the understandable mistake of confusing Mitsubishi Chemicals with Mitsui. I don't recall saying that if I haven't personally seen something, it cannot be. :roll: Of course, in your case I may be willing to make an exception.

We all know that brands are constantly switching actual manufacturers. And Mitsui has made discs for other brands in the past, including Yamaha, Philips, Sony and Teac. In addition, while Verbatim makes it own CD-Rs it also sells CD-Rs made by CMC. So it wouldn't be out of the question for Verbatim to contract with Mitsui for CD-Rs as well.

But you lost me when you claimed that you are holding an AZO disc made by Mitsui. Mitsui uses its own patented phythalocyanine dye. Mitsubishi Chemicals uses its own patented AZO (now Super AZO) dye. The two aren't anything alike.

As for your "frosted look on the top" evidence, it doesn't mean much. Genuine Verbatim (Mitsubishi Chemicals, that is) discs are coated with a pebbly finish lacquer that very much resembles the finish on genuine Mitsui discs.

The fact that you bought these at a computer fair doesn't help your cause either. As dolphinius_rex stated, one is more likely to get goods of questionable origin at a computer fair.

So, I guess I will make an exception in this case and not believe your story. You're just a tad too defensive in presenting your case. It makes we wonder why. I'll believe that Mitsui makes CD-Rs for Verbatim when I hear it from a source that doesn't have such a high personal stake in justifying who makes the CD-Rs he buys. 8) :)

cfitz

Spoken with great pomposity and arrogance. Well done. Practice snarling in front of the mirror, chum ? :roll:

I re-iterate. CD Identifier says one thing, you say another. I believe CD Identifier, matey, what you say or think is of very little interest. On the subject of Computer fairs, I would guess you're one of those types that likes to barge to the front and talk loudly about how much you know while not buying anything ?
Thought so..... :roll:
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Postby cfitz on Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:01 pm

:lol:

Leaving aside the question of whether Phil's discs are actually being reported as "Mitsui" or "Mitsubishi Chemicals", for those who are interested here is a reminder about the fallacy of unquestioning reliance on the ATIP start of lead-in code as an indicator of a disc's actual manufacturer:

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-33

Out and out counterfeit discs are not unheard of either. And one is generally more likely to run into such questionable media in the ephemeral world of computer fairs. Not guaranteed to, of course, but more likely than when buying at established firms.

Again, it is not totally out of the question that Mitsubishi Chemicals contracted with Mitsui to make some discs for them. Others should judge the veracity of Phil's claim for themselves. But I am unconvinced, and will remain so until I get confirmation from a source I personally find to be trustworthy.

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Postby Phil K on Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:58 pm

cfitz wrote::lol:

Leaving aside the question of whether Phil's discs are actually being reported as "Mitsui" or "Mitsubishi Chemicals", for those who are interested here is a reminder about the fallacy of unquestioning reliance on the ATIP start of lead-in code as an indicator of a disc's actual manufacturer:

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-33

Out and out counterfeit discs are not unheard of either. And one is generally more likely to run into such questionable media in the ephemeral world of computer fairs. Not guaranteed to, of course, but more likely than when buying at established firms.

Again, it is not totally out of the question that Mitsubishi Chemicals contracted with Mitsui to make some discs for them. Others should judge the veracity of Phil's claim for themselves. But I am unconvinced, and will remain so until I get confirmation from a source I personally find to be trustworthy.

cfitz

Thats more like it. Why couldn't you have gone down this road originally ?

Nevertheless. Why should a counterfeiter have gone to so much trouble to outwit CD Identifier ? It doesnt make sense, for so little reward. Surely best to say "maybe it was a tryout, to see how Mitsui figured under Verbatim colours" ? Yes, thats colours with a "U" ! ;)

(Back to good humour) Thats humour with a "U" etc etc etc.......:D
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Postby cfitz on Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:26 pm

Phil K wrote:Why should a counterfeiter have gone to so much trouble to outwit CD Identifier ? It doesnt make sense, for so little reward.

I don't know. If your discs really were counterfeit, I imagine it would be fruitless to assign a motive for the counterfeiters actions. They probably wouldn't care about what the ATIP reveals, since most casual users aren't aware of utilities like CD Identifier and someone who did discover a discrepancy would have no recourse to return the discs to the counterfeiters. Thus, rather than trying to fool such utilities, I suspect they would just use whatever stamper they could get hold of, and label the discs with whatever brand they have artwork for, without caring whether the two match.

I tend to doubt yours actually are counterfeit, though, since you report having good success with them. And I have no actual evidence to support the contention, but I suspect that there isn't much CD-R counterfeiting going on these days anyway, since prices are so low. As you said, it doesn't make sense to run the risk for so little reward. If I were a counterfeiter, I would be concentrating on the more expensive DVD media at this point.

Just to add another tidbit to the ever changing mystery of Verbatim, I don't know if you have read the posts about the relationship between Verbatim/Mitsuibishi Chemicals and CMC. Not only does Verbatim sell CMC discs labeled as Verbatim ValueLife (but made with CMC's traditional phthalocyanine dye and bearing CMC's ATIP), but it appears that they also sell Verbatim DataLife Plus discs made by CMC in CMC factories using Mitsubishi Chemicals' SuperAZO dye, processes and ATIP. This is one example of a famous brand-name disc bearing an ATIP from a different company than the one that actually made the disc.

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Postby cfitz on Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:15 am

By the way, what is the actual ATIP code you are seeing?

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Postby Phil K on Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:33 pm

cfitz wrote:By the way, what is the actual ATIP code you are seeing?

cfitz

Going by CD Identifier (Sorry about the delay - it is sometimes weeks between visits) under "ATIP" it reads : 97m 34s 22f
And Lead Out : 79m 59s 74f (LBA 359999)
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Postby RJW on Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:24 am

97m 34s 22f
In that case it is manufactured with a stamper of Mitsubishi.
(Inside a Mitusbishi,CMC or Moser Baer plant)
So the software might be incorrect or you might have made a little mistake.
Personally I think it's the software since I have seen more weirdthings.

About MPO there one of the few manufacturers that still make gold disc's.
THere a french manufacturer there home brand is hispace.
About there quality. Not the best but not the worst. Not stuff I would recommend. However the MAxell ones I used myself were quite decent but then again my good old plextor 24/10/40A burned them.

About MBIL cd-r's.
There a weird brand when it comes to quality.
Some disc's (EMTEC CERAM GUARD 80 minutes.) are quite good. While others are quite bad.
Ageing and UV test show the same pattern.
Some disc have mayor problems with dye and metal layer while others score quite good.
It looks like MBIL has very large quality differences between there internal quality rateing.
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Postby Phil K on Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:10 am

RJW wrote:97m 34s 22f
In that case it is manufactured with a stamper of Mitsubishi.
(Inside a Mitusbishi,CMC or Moser Baer plant)
So the software might be incorrect or you might have made a little mistake.
Personally I think it's the software since I have seen more weirdthings..

Then I quite happily bow to the knowledgeable ! ;)
I tried CD Identifier again, and its adamant that its a Mitsui. BUT another, Alcohol, correctly tells me its a Mitsubishi. So there you go. If I'd double checked in the first place, I needn't have snapped at someone I didnt know ! :wink: :D
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Postby jase on Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:46 pm

It's a bit surprising really that CDR-Identifier made this error. I've always found it totally reliable (except when it doesn't know due to not having been updated in years). Yes I can confirm (as if it were needed) that the disc in question is a Mitsi not a Mitsui. Ironically, it's usually Alcohol that's a bit all over the place with its data. Ho hum.
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