POLL: Democracy and my final drive choice! Vote on...

[MadBurner]

Keep in mind, I think I'm the *ONLY* person on this forum who owns the Pioneer DVR-107, Plextor 712a, and the NEC 2500 (maybe not the 2510a but arguably pretty damn close!). I'm sure Ian could argue himself against me though (don't think he still has all 3 drive though )

I also own all three drives! I love my Plextor for its +R capabilities, Pioneer for its -R capabilities and the NEC for consistant results with both +R and -R media

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[axelrod]

How is your reading with the NEC? And can the same results be expected on the 2510, as you're getting on the 107?


Is it possible for anyone who has done them, to post scans that might help clarify the reading/writing differences of the two drives? A side by side quality comparison of some kind? I've read reviews, but in most cases, they are using the original firmware -- esp. in the case of the Pioneer, where the official firmware has improved to 1.16.


thanks people!

-ax

[MadBurner]

I actually purchased both the NEC ND-2500A and 2510A for testing purposes and I personally did not notice anything different between the two as far as reading media was concerned. I am still testing the Pioneer but so far that drive is very impressive with -R media!

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[axelrod]

Well. I think i'd prefer to go with the Pioneer, here is what's holding me back..... tell me what you think about this in the scheme of things...


1.) DL. I think, that would be nice. But, then I think, is it something that is going to be inexpensive and stable enough? If my primary goal isn't to copy DVD's, then it's still much cheaper (and potentionally more reliable depending on how the DL holds up) to burn 2 discs. Maybe thats rationalizing tho...

2.) The NEC's reading quality is said to be subpar by many. Some even suggest "the NEC is a great recorder, just have another DVD drive to use as a reader/ripper". Thats not good news for me, this will be the only DVD drive I'll have in my PC. I'd like it to be able to work fine as a straight reader, even if my DVD movie has some scratches, not to mention being able to read discs from other drives, etc.

3.) booktype/bitsetting (?). Okay, basically from what I understand this allows you to change a DVD +r or DVD -r to a "DVD-ROM" so it can be read by standalone players (I may be off on this analysis..). But, isn't it true that using -R discs will make them virtually completely compatible with standalones? Since the Pioneer excells in -R media.....


let me know what you think!

-ax

[pchilson]

let me know what you think!

I think you ought to just go ahead and buy one.

[MadBurner]

The NEC ND-2500A, 2510A and Pioneer are slow rippers when compared with certain DVD-ROM drives but the Pioneer was faster although not by much.

BTW, you can pickup the Pioneer DVR-A07XL in white or black for $124.94 less a $40 rebate bringing the drive to $84.94!!

http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.process ... astSearch=

This should help make your decision easier for ya

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[Shredder]

Well. I think i'd prefer to go with the Pioneer, here is what's holding me back..... tell me what you think about this in the scheme of things...


1.) DL. I think, that would be nice. But, then I think, is it something that is going to be inexpensive and stable enough? If my primary goal isn't to copy DVD's, then it's still much cheaper (and potentionally more reliable depending on how the DL holds up) to burn 2 discs. Maybe thats rationalizing tho...

2.) The NEC's reading quality is said to be subpar by many. Some even suggest "the NEC is a great recorder, just have another DVD drive to use as a reader/ripper". Thats not good news for me, this will be the only DVD drive I'll have in my PC. I'd like it to be able to work fine as a straight reader, even if my DVD movie has some scratches, not to mention being able to read discs from other drives, etc.

3.) booktype/bitsetting (?). Okay, basically from what I understand this allows you to change a DVD +r or DVD -r to a "DVD-ROM" so it can be read by standalone players (I may be off on this analysis..). But, isn't it true that using -R discs will make them virtually completely compatible with standalones? Since the Pioneer excells in -R media.....

1. Pioneer can't burn DL. NEC 2510 can burn DL. Even if you do not have use for DL burning now, it is a nice feature/function to have. Simple enough.
2. Reading issue most people are talking about is CD copy protection. No other manufacturers can beat Plextor, LiteOn or Asus drives when it comes to reading protected CD's. My NEC 2510 can read badly scratched PS2 DVD game disc fine. So I doubt it has any issue with scratched DVD disc. No DVD drive can read seriously/terribly scratched discs.
3. Bitsetting is currently available for DVD+ only. DVD-R is generally more compatible with older generation standalone DVD players. In modern DVD players, DVD+ and DVD- have about same level of compatibility.

[axelrod]

I just picked up a 50 pack of Verbatim (MCC) Dvd-R for $40.00.

Should this impact my decision either way?

This is a fun forum isn't it? I'm way too into this decision.....

man...

thanks!

-ax

[MadBurner]

I had no problems with these discs with the drives in question but they failed miserably with my Plextor PX-712A

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[pchilson]

I had no problems with these discs with the drives in question but they failed miserably with my Plextor PX-712A

MB

What? Coasters or just high error rates.
What firmware version? What TLA #

They are on the "recommended" list.

I was considering picking up a tub of these but now you stopped me dead in my tracks...

[thegdog]

I just picked up a 50 pack of Verbatim (MCC) Dvd-R for $40.00.

Should this impact my decision either way?

This is a fun forum isn't it? I'm way too into this decision.....

I'm not sure which drives you've limited your decision down to (it was the BTC 1108 and NuTech DDW-082, right? ).

But no, you shouldn't have a problem with the NEC or the Pioneer drives and that media.

[MadBurner]

What? Coasters or just high error rates.

What firmware version? What TLA #

They are on the "recommended" list.

I was considering picking up a tub of these but now you stopped me dead in my tracks...

Coasters. Firmware version 1.03, TLA #0101, using CloneDVD 2.0.9.4. The NEC drive burned them without any problems. The Verbatim 4X DVD-R (MCC 01RG20) media is the ONLY media that I have had problems with on the PX-712A.

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[thegdog]

1.) DL. I think, that would be nice. But, then I think, is it something that is going to be inexpensive and stable enough? If my primary goal isn't to copy DVD's, then it's still much cheaper (and potentionally more reliable depending on how the DL holds up) to burn 2 discs. Maybe thats rationalizing tho...

It is cheaper to burn two discs. No doubt about it.

And that's NOT going to change anytime soon.

The real draw for dual layer media right now is for DVD videos, either copying existing dual layer discs or for mastering your own for distribution.

Yes, its a nice feature to have in case you need/want it later. Especially since it really adds no cost to your decision.

But if you don't see yourself needing it, then it probably shouldn't be part of the decision.

2.) The NEC's reading quality is said to be subpar by many. Some even suggest "the NEC is a great recorder, just have another DVD drive to use as a reader/ripper". Thats not good news for me, this will be the only DVD drive I'll have in my PC. I'd like it to be able to work fine as a straight reader, even if my DVD movie has some scratches, not to mention being able to read discs from other drives, etc.

I've ripped some DVDs that I rented through Netflix because I wasn't goign to have time to watch them and I needed to return them in order to get new releases on time, and my NEC drive had no problems ripping them. Even heavily scratched ones.

And I personally have had no problems reading any DVDs with my NEC drive, including DVD-Rs/+Rs burned on other drives. I haven't tried any -RW/+RW since I don't use them at all. I will say that it takes a little longer for the NEC to recognize media, but only by a few seconds at the most.

3.) booktype/bitsetting (?). Okay, basically from what I understand this allows you to change a DVD +r or DVD -r to a "DVD-ROM" so it can be read by standalone players (I may be off on this analysis..). But, isn't it true that using -R discs will make them virtually completely compatible with standalones? Since the Pioneer excells in -R media.....

Yes, it allows you to change the booktype on a DVD+R or DVD+RW disc to DVD-ROM. This is because some settop DVD players, for whatever reason, actually use it to determine if a disc is a DVD. If it doesn't see DVD-ROM, it won't recognize the disc.

DVD-R/-RW media doesn't allow for changing the booktype as its pre-encoded on the disc. Some drives have a hack for this, although reports I've read from people who tried it, setting DVD-R to DVD-ROM this way actually caused the disc not to be read by their DVD player.

If you know anyone who has a DVD writer, ask them to burn a movie for you on DVD+R media without changing the booktype. If it plays on your DVD players, then bitsetting might not be a priority for you. (Though then you might also want to consider testing +RW media as well.)

If you are going with a DL drive though, it looks like bitsetting will be very important from initial results.

In general DVD-R media is more compatible it seems. Personally, I prefer DVD+R media as I find it writes better. My set top DVD player, however, plays both fine (without bitsetting) so bitsetting has never affected me until I burned a DL disc.

I don't think the fact that Pioneer writes DVD-R very well (and they should since they invented it) adds to the compatibility of the media any. The only problems I have heard about DVD-R media not working correctly after being burned was with NuTech drives when they first came out, and I think a BenQ drive whose burned DVD-R media could not be read on an Xbox. I've never seen any evidence that a DVD-R burned on a Pioneer is more compatible than a DVD-R burned on an NEC or vice versa.

[pchilson]

Coasters. Firmware version 1.03, TLA #0101, using CloneDVD 2.0.9.4. The NEC drive burned them without any problems. The Verbatim 4X DVD-R (MCC 01RG20) media is the ONLY media that I have had problems with on the PX-712A.

Thanks for that info. Saved me buying and then grrrr.
Have you tried the +R?

[MadBurner]

Thanks for that info. Saved me buying and then grrrr.
Have you tried the +R?

Your welcome! I haven't tried the +R yet but I plan to soon. The Maxell DVD-R (MXL RG02) media works really well on the PX-712A.

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[axelrod]

So the Verbatim -R should be okay then, even if I go with the NEC? I can always still trade it in for the same but +R. But, really -- it shouldn't make a difference, right?

Will the verbatim 4x burn at higher speeds well with either of these drives firmware hacks or with the stock firmware?


thanks!

-ax

[axelrod]

Couple of things on the NEC 2510....

I've been looking at the hacked firmwares, are any of these good for the 2510? Herrie's looks to be for the 2500, and a flash on the 2510 would kill it's native DL support...


Also, can anyone confirm (I believe I read it here) that the NEC will burn these 4x Verbatim Dvd-R at 8x with it's native firmware (2.15?).

thanks--

-ax

[Shredder]

I've been looking at the hacked firmwares, are any of these good for the 2510? Herrie's looks to be for the 2500, and a flash on the 2510 would kill it's native DL support...

You probably didn't look around or search websites. Search websites with comments and results from people such as cdfreaks.com and rpc1.org and for media, videohelp.com ...

[MadBurner]

Also, can anyone confirm (I believe I read it here) that the NEC will burn these 4x Verbatim Dvd-R at 8x with it's native firmware (2.15?).

thanks--

-ax

I have yet to come across ANY 4X DVD-R media that will burn at 8X with the stock firmware on the NEC drives in question.

MB

[thegdog]

I've been looking at the hacked firmwares, are any of these good for the 2510? Herrie's looks to be for the 2500, and a flash on the 2510 would kill it's native DL support...

Umm, no. The firmware has DL support. The existing beta is for the ND-2500A drive, but it can be flashed on an ND-2510A as well (in DOS). Your drive model name will show up as ND-2500A, but DL writing will still work, you will have the ability to bitset, and most media can be written at higher speeds than they are rated for.

You can also wait for Herrie's next release which will have a Windows flasher that will work with the ND-2510A drive. It also won't change the model name to ND-2500A.

Also, can anyone confirm (I believe I read it here) that the NEC will burn these 4x Verbatim Dvd-R at 8x with it's native firmware (2.15?).

Don't have any Verbatim 4x DVD-R myself. If it has the MCC code, then it probably will allow you to write it at 8x. According to NEC's media guide PDF document, it shows that it can be written at 8x with the stock firmware. But can't say that I've tried it myself.

If its Verbatim media with a CMC media id code, then no, it will not write at 8x with the stock firmware. You would need to use Herrie's firmware.

[axelrod]

Thanks again to everyone with the help on this thread...

I've almost made a decision at least 6 times, before coming across something that made me change my mind.

Ultimatly, my main use for the drive will be back-up and storage of my work, and reading/watching DVD's and things of that nature....

I hear the NEC is a bit slower to write than the Pioneer, I've even waivered back toward the 712, but I can't bite the high price.... A nice review of the 2510 with firmware would be perct for cdrlabs or cdfreaks right about now!

maybe I should pay someone to just suprise me with a drive, I'm sure I'll be happy either way...

-ax

[pchilson]

I thought you were going to buy your drive last weekend?
Not this weekend but next weekend the Pioneer will be on sale.

[axelrod]

Really? What kind of sale? I know they have a MIR on the A07 right now, anything amazingly good on deck for the 107/A07?? It might push me into Pioneer camp...


and yes, I was sposed' to buy my drive last weekend, but I stupidly did not. At least I bought some media! So, I'm on my way....

I've gotten closer to the 2510A in the last few days, but if it wasn't for the bitsetting thing, I'd probably go Pioneer.......The DL is cool, but I probably won't use it untill the discs drop out of the absurdity price range in at least 6 months....



-ax

[ClayBuster]

Why would you care about bit setting? You bought -R media!

Just go out tomorrow buy a damn drive already

[Mystery Man]

Im normally a pioneer person but i voted for the nec mainly because it supports dual layer burning & the pioneer doesnt. Ive got the pioneer 106D and its been a very good burner. Im patiently waiting for pioneer's next one they release which probably wont be till end of August at the earliest